Dave Hone

said that, well, it's probably not the case because you don't really see pack hunting in birds.

And so if you don't see it in birds, then dinosaurs being their ancestor, if birds can't evolve it, then maybe dinosaurs couldn't have evolved it.

Which...

I'm not sure is a great logical argument because of the complexities of social behavior anyway.

But then there are a couple of birds which actively hunt in groups.

Things like the giant ground hornbills, Ethiopia and South Africa are a really good example of that.

So that point is incorrect.

And then we see, if not true sociality, we see cooperation in crocodilians and we're seeing degrees of social behavior in things like iguanas.

So the idea that like, well, birds are super advanced and dinosaurs can't do it because the stupid reptiles are too stupid and therefore dinosaurs are more like them, which isn't quite what they're saying, but it's sort of the unwritten idea.

Well, we have social behavior and cooperation behavior in crocs and in lizards.

So that really gives you the impression that dinosaurs, theoretically, at least are perfectly capable of that.

Yeah, because, you know, animals are doing complicated things.

So, you know, in the case of lions, a large part of this is down to territoriality and the males ultimately are defending the territory and that's effectively protecting the females.

But of course, what they're mostly protecting them from is

other males.

So there's a ludicrous bit of self-interest.

But that's effectively how it's operating as a system.

But it could just be

predatory type cheetahs are my go-to example for this so cheetahs are the weird ones compared to the other cats because females are solitary but males are social so brothers will when when you know if the female has five or six cubs the brothers will stay together in a group and then the girls will go off on their own and if you're if you're the only brother or the only survivor you were usually hung up hook up with a gang of other males so cheetahs are pack hunters if you're male and a

So it's not about territory defense or occupation for them.