David Butterfield

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739 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard May 2026 last heard 20 May

David Butterfield’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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TRIGGERnometry · How Civilisations Die - Ancient Greece Expert David Butterfield · 20 May 2026 podcast

Well, over the course of the fifth century, various reformers introduced pay, first to those who attend the council of 500, then to those who do jury duty, and then finally to people who attend the assembly.

You get a good day's pay by the end of the fifth century for doing your democratic duty.

So that breaks the aristocratic stronghold over democracy.

Anyone, regardless of their means, could spend their days as a democratic citizen.

The second, and this is really shocking, was to remove elections.

You would think that asking the people their democratic will as to who would be best placed to decide what we should do is a good system.

You could look at the merit of what people have done.

You could judge on that basis.

You could choose people who are known to you for their skill set and elect them.

problem was, the problem that Cleisthenes wanted to combat was that money would corrupt elections.

People would campaign, they would bribe, and people who really wanted the office and had the pockets to pay for it would get it.

So what do you do if you want to get rid of elections?

You go for random lot.

Your name will be picked out of the hat,

And that may mean you end up on the council.

You may say, okay, there's 500 people on the council.

I can probably keep my head down.

No, the 500 people on the council over the 10 months of the Athenian year, each group of 50 from each of the 10 tribes for one month have to live together in a special building and they're in charge.

Worse than that, each day, a random name of those 50 is chosen, and whoever's name is chosen is the epistates, and that guy is running the whole show.

If war is declared, that guy has the responsibility.

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