David Deida

But there are also very deep people who are not very integrated.

They may be alcoholics, they may be cheating, they may have sex with all of their students.

And that doesn't mean they're not

they don't recognize the nature of their being.

It just means that their pattern has yet to unfold.

And you need to be careful.

I mean, you could put structure so that pattern doesn't hurt people, or you could make amends as those patterns inevitably hurt people.

But that's the usual.

That's not the exception, as you say.

People have a kind of recognition that they can share with others.

And yet, it's just like being an artist.

How many artists can essentially create

let's take a musician, they could make divine music and yet they themselves in their personal life are pretty messed up.

First of all, I agree with you that suffering is the trigger for a lot of depth and a lot of art, which to me are the same thing.

Good art comes from depth.

So...

I agree with you, and that's why I don't think people should rush through these phases, and also why I don't think people should assume someone has depth.

It means they're an integrated character.

I would say that a lack of integration often creates art more than an integrated human.

the way i'm using that word is that they're socially skilled they act with deep morality uh people who are good people a man you know someone who you could trust a lot of these teachers you wouldn't trust or a lot of these musicians or artists or whatever form they take you might trust their art but you wouldn't trust them whatever with your wife or with your bank account or with you know you