David Jones

upfront or false nine or creating, however you want to describe it in a short frame.

And you got a brilliant revolutionary, not just coach, but inspirer like Pep, because he came in and he galvanized them.

If you remember how distraught, how ragtag, how low in standards they were when he took over in summer 2008, they,

But then you surround Messi with Iniesta and Xavi and Puyol and Pique and things that you will both, David too, but you'll both recognise.

I mean, they were made of tungsten steel, Pique, Abidal.

Abidal playing when he said he was breaking it, filling his shorts because he was seven kilos under.

He'd just recovered from a cancer operation.

So I'm talking about tungsten steel personalities.

I don't have to explain to either of you about Mascherano.

think about pk think about brilliant athletes serial winners but hard hard as nails determined to win all the time but then you you dress that up with the michael carrick talks in the film about being shocked about how via and pedro were willing to hold so far wide and ask park and valencia different questions spread the pitch and if you spread the pitch and that's why you know i

Ryan Giggs maybe, probably is the greatest Premier League player, but playing in midfield that night, I'm not certain was right because as the pitch was spread, Messi dropped back with Busquets and Xabi and Iniesta and Dani Alves moved into the midfield as well.

How was that United midfield meant to cope?

I don't know.

And therefore, my answer to you is, if you try to define the era, Jamie, and you don't mention Xavi and Iniesta, then you're not doing full credit to why they were so exceptional and why the platform for Messi, when he dropped in and played in a diamond, in a quartet with Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta, plus Messi, how many times was that midfield going to get beaten?

I think that's a great point.

Jamie, it was utterly fascinating.

I remember, this is long before I wrote the book, long before Duncan McMath and I made the film, Pep's appointment...

was greeted, let's make a comparison.

Let's say Jamie took over at Spurs or you took over at Liverpool.

There would be anticipation.