David Marchese

He says he saw it.

He saw something.

He saw something.

There's no proof. No proof dinosaurs didn't create cell phones, but hey.

There's no proof. No proof dinosaurs didn't create cell phones, but hey.

We have to be open to the possibility of wonder. We live in hope. We live in hope. So now I want to get back to where we ended before. Okay. So you raised the idea that, or you posed the question that art might be a call to our innate goodness. And I have a very hard time buying that notion, but I would very much like to be disabused of my skepticism around that.

We have to be open to the possibility of wonder. We live in hope. We live in hope. So now I want to get back to where we ended before. Okay. So you raised the idea that, or you posed the question that art might be a call to our innate goodness. And I have a very hard time buying that notion, but I would very much like to be disabused of my skepticism around that.

And I just think there is so much art, even great art, that speaks to the worst of humanity. You know, you could look at Lenny Riefenstahl's films, you know, or the writing of Celine or a million other examples. And I don't see these things as having anything to do with innate goodness.

And I just think there is so much art, even great art, that speaks to the worst of humanity. You know, you could look at Lenny Riefenstahl's films, you know, or the writing of Celine or a million other examples. And I don't see these things as having anything to do with innate goodness.

I think maybe you could say that the thing that art allows us to do is to tell the truth about humanity and show it in all its dimensions. But that's not quite the same thing as any sort of call to goodness. So tell me I'm wrong. Okay.

I think maybe you could say that the thing that art allows us to do is to tell the truth about humanity and show it in all its dimensions. But that's not quite the same thing as any sort of call to goodness. So tell me I'm wrong. Okay.

Oh, I don't have a gagging point about the idea of innate goodness in general. Okay. I think, you know, love is an innately good thing. I think, you know, you could say life is innately good. Uh-huh. But I do... find myself increasingly skeptical about the idea of art as being in any way inherently positive.

Oh, I don't have a gagging point about the idea of innate goodness in general. Okay. I think, you know, love is an innately good thing. I think, you know, you could say life is innately good. Uh-huh. But I do... find myself increasingly skeptical about the idea of art as being in any way inherently positive.

If we accept that art can be positive, I don't understand how we could not accept that it can also be negative. I think there's something a little naively optimistic about the idea of art as innately good in any form.

If we accept that art can be positive, I don't understand how we could not accept that it can also be negative. I think there's something a little naively optimistic about the idea of art as innately good in any form.

Yes.

Yes.

vulnerabilities i don't know does that make any sense it does make sense um this is related i think you pointed to uh a meanness in the world that that feels uh ascendant at this moment and you suggested that the purveyors of of that meanness you know they too were once vulnerable little children and well still are still are whether they tell us or not and um

vulnerabilities i don't know does that make any sense it does make sense um this is related i think you pointed to uh a meanness in the world that that feels uh ascendant at this moment and you suggested that the purveyors of of that meanness you know they too were once vulnerable little children and well still are still are whether they tell us or not and um

I'm just not sure what to do with that connection. Like, so the awareness of those two things, the meanness in the world and that the people who are being mean still are vulnerable little children could elicit what productive response?