David Remnick

is of Minneapolis under siege.

I've been speaking with Emily Witt, who wrote The Battle for Minneapolis for The New Yorker, and Ruby Kramer, who wrote The Mayor of an Occupied City, about the city's mayor, Jacob Fry.

Pam Bondi, the attorney general, recently said that she wanted access to Minnesota's voter rolls and its welfare data

And if she got that, maybe she'd pull out some forces, some ice forces from the state.

What do you make of this?

What do we know at this moment?

about the killing of Rene Good?

And what do we know about who killed Alex Preddy?

In other words, how far along are the, at least the preliminary investigations into those killings?

And is the state of Minnesota even able to investigate?

Well, the amazing thing is that the Vice President of the United States, J.D.

Vance, declared that

after the killing of Rene Good, that ICE agents have, and this is his quote, absolute immunity, a comment that he's tried to walk back a little bit since then, but not with great success.

Do you think that's affecting what's happening on the ground and the tension and the anger, Emily?

It's hard to interrupt, but I get the feeling that all of our listeners are a little bit like me.

In other words, we get...

to watch snippets of this on social media or a five-minute report on cable news or something like that.

And what I'd love to know from both of you is what it's like to stand there in the freezing cold and watch a bunch of ICE officers and a bunch of protesters facing off.

What's the feel of that?

How do the tensions get ratcheted up?