David Remnick

What's the vibe between those two people and how it leads to violence?

Ruby, maybe you could start.

And there are no outliers.

There are no people that are particularly provocative among the protesters in your experience?

Ruby, there's a relatively new chief of police in Minneapolis.

His name is Brian O'Hara, and he started in 2022.

His position is, needless to say, excruciating.

Let's listen to a little of your conversation with him about dealing with the influx of federal agents.

Now, Ruby, at the end there, he's referring to an incident that everybody here watched, you know, on cable news and social media, this woman being pulled out of the car with terrific force, I would say.

And here you have the chief of police saying,

in very measured terms, but nevertheless speaking oppositionally to these federal forces.

So there must be enormous tension between the Minneapolis police and ICE.

And didn't Brian O'Hara, the chief of police in Minneapolis, didn't he...

Wasn't he involved in a program in Newark that informs his experience and his point of view?

Ruby, there's a lot of talk now about how local government is or isn't helping the federal government.

It's been a challenge for local government to navigate how to work under these conditions.

They're practically unique.

Let's listen to a clip of the mayor of Minneapolis from when you interviewed him talking about how his government typically works.

Now, Trump has been saying during this crisis that local government refuses to work with the federal government on immigration.

What's the truth or not in that?