David Remnick

Where Michelle Obama famously said, when they go low, we go high.

Welch says, you want to go low?

We're going to go lower.

I'll continue my conversation with Jennifer Welch.

Joe Rogan is the leading podcaster, not only in this country, but in the world.

And by a lot.

And this is a guy who started out not with politics in mind.

but rather with UFOs in mind and UFC fighting and suddenly politics and big thinkers and dark web people and, and, and started coming to his show.

And it became even more important, even more influential.

And one of the biggest lingering questions about Kamala Harris wasn't about this policy question or that.

It was about why the hell she didn't manage to go on Joe Rogan.

Now, I know you don't listen incessantly.

But I wonder what your thoughts on Joe Rogan – how you think about him and what influence it might or might not have on what you do.

Do you?

Yeah, I do.

Do you think the New York Times is a reliable purveyor of news?

Because it's certainly the dominant newspaper and probably news gathering organization in this country.

More outraged in a sense.

And it's been the soft sell of this fascism that has normalized it.

This week's cover of The New Yorker is Donald Trump emits lots of explosions, obviously Venezuela, drinking from a gigantic barrel of oil and the oil is coming all over him.