Debra Kamin

The best way to answer that question is for someone to file a lawsuit.

When the laws are actually tested, when people have to actually argue for and against this loophole that they've staked this entire community on, then we will know how solid it actually is and if it can stand up.

But the thing is...

They want that lawsuit to come.

They want it to come right now because they understand, the same way you and I do, the political moment that we're living in.

You want to do it under Trump.

You want to do it under Trump, that's what you're saying.

Yes.

The far right...

is surging in the United States.

And the founders of Return of the Land are reading the same headlines that you and I are reading.

They believe that there are people at the highest levels of government and the Justice Department who are very sympathetic to the ideas and grievances that they say are really problematic for white people in the U.S.

And they feel that if there's ever been a time for a lawsuit to be successful, it is right now.

And just a few weeks ago, they got their first lawsuit.

And so having read the same article, we can discuss it.

The coverage, the options, it's not just news.

Such a diversified desk.

I was really excited to give him a New York Times cooking subscription so that we could share recipes.

And we even just shared a recipe the other day.

The woman who brought this lawsuit, her name is Michelle Walker, and she actually agreed to talk to me right before she filed.