Devora Rogers
speaker
454 appearances
2 recordings
1 series
first heard Mar 2025
last heard 3 Jul
Devora Rogers’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 1 in all, peaking in Jul 2026 with 1.
Appearances
I don't want to call them colleagues, but we have people who are trying to use synthetic respondents, which by the way, that means not a real human, in case anybody didn't know.
Artificial, not real, fake, to essentially answer research surveys. And I look at that and I go, why would you do that? You could use big data to do that. You could use any number of things. Nothing, nothing reveals opportunities and challenges in the way that talking to humans does. It just doesn't.
You know, and so I think that attribution is worthwhile and certainly if you're doing a lot of media spend, you've got to do it. But. We feel that brands have to put in the work and ultimately get answers from real people dealing with real challenges that either your company can or cannot solve.
Yeah. So a couple couple thoughts on that. So my mentor, you mentioned yours. My mentor was a guy named John Ross, who was had been the CMO at Home Depot. And he oversaw Home Depot's growth, you know, the biggest growth of its development. Right. And I learned a lot from him around how I think about research and retail and shopping.
We wrote a book together called Fire in the Zoo, which is all about the difficulty of selling at retail and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, he used to do so. They had, you know, every imagine, you know, they had Deloitte. They had all every consultant in the world was working for Home Depot at the time. Every single one. They had any amount of data or research they wanted. And guess what?
As the CMO, he felt like he still didn't know why people were making choices. And so he would go down and, you know, put on an apron, stand in the paint aisle, and he would ask people a series of very, very simple questions. What made you decide to come in today? Where'd you go for information? What of that information was most influential? What of that information specifically? Was it price?
Was it what we told you about the product? Had you ultimately decided that you wanted to come in and make a purchase? And he would go do those conversations. And, you know, small business owners can do that. You don't need a research agency to do that. So if you're really on the no budget side, I would say small business owners need to at least be having those conversations. They won't be at scale.
And you got to be aware of that.
We turned it into a quantitative methodology.
Yeah. And today clients do that methodology at scale when they're trying to figure out where is everyone going for information? Where should I be? I don't have billions of dollars. I have to choose between TikTok and Google or podcasts and, you know, Google search. What should I do? And then now you can do these selfnographies. We use a company called D-Scout, which I'll give them a shout out.
I think they've built something really cool. There's another one called Recollective. And for a relatively small sum, $20,000, $30,000, you can send out real people into the real world and find out how they're responding to your product or your service or your stores. And, you know, OK, 30 people, that's not the same as a thousand. But you know what?
If you work in research, the truth is after about 12 or 18, you start hearing a lot of the same things.
I mean, honestly, podcasts are pretty amazing. We've been tracking podcasts for 15 years. And for a long time, it was like they were down there with the dust bunnies. Nobody used them. They weren't driving influence. And now we see that they are widely used, I would say, by about 30 to 40 percent of the population. So there's people that don't use them. Fine.
But there's a decent audience that is really listening and really attuned and they really love the hosts. And so that can be a very powerful channel for brands. And a lot of brands have worried that podcasts are not brand safe because you can't control everything that happens. But consumers tell us that they do not penalize brands if something... I mean, it's different if it's like a bigoted show.
But if it's just like bad language... Consumers don't care.
Yeah, same, especially on Fridays.
Yeah. I mean, I think there's some really great, you know, speaking about podcasts, right? There's a lot of podcasters that use codes and that kind of thing. That gives you an opportunity to know what's working. We're seeing creators do that. Creators are certainly having a moment.
I'm a little bit worried about creators with the growth of AI because I worry that it could kind of turn things into slop. And that's not going to be good for consumers or brands, but that's an aside. I think you have to live with some level of uncertainty. You're never going to know everything. You just never will. But you can find out a lot.
Let's say you're, you know, throwing money at TV and radio and podcasts and 10 other things. We do a study where we then ask people, what sources did you use before making a purchase? And we only talk to people who actually made the purchase. So these aren't in tenders. These aren't random consumers. They actually bought the thing that our brand is selling.
And if we see that TV is just really low, not a lot of people are using it, but it's really influential, we take note. Or like another one that we see a lot, like people kind of make fun of catalogs. Do you know catalogs are like actually not so bad. Not a lot of people use them, but the people that do, they buy shit. Really influential.
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