Donncha O'Callaghan

And then 10 minutes or five minutes before kickoff, you'd hear Foggs giving it to, lads, you've bled with Frankie for years.

Will you bleed with me?

And like, you could see the lads buying in, kind of giving it to, yeah, Foggs, we got your back.

And then he's winking over at me, kind of like, freedom.

Yeah, I think it did.

It definitely did.

It's just all little behaviours, isn't it?

And realising, like, there's refs you got on better with and you were more comfortable around, but...

Joel Juch, remember the French ref?

No, that's in charge of, is he in charge?

Yeah, he's kind of one of the top boys, yeah.

But I remember before the game, in one of the matches, he was there, before the match he was there, I want you calm and composed today.

To me, straight away, I was like, whoa, yes, I hear you, sir.

But I remember O'Connell took exception.

Paulie was there.

Hold on a second.

We haven't even stepped out on the pitch.

You know what I mean?

You can't have a preconceived idea about him.

But I suppose that's probably what happens with referees, which is human.