Dr. Cal Newport

Like actually getting better at things is really painful sometimes.

Deliberate practice is not the same as flow.

And there was a lot of fights about this for a while.

I think there was a lot of flow advocates that just wanted life to be flow all the time.

But I think Anders was right because I watched these professionals practice.

Like that's what it is.

It's not fun.

It doesn't have a big place in it, in the deep work framework.

And this was what the controversy was for a while.

And I knew Mahaley a little bit.

We corresponded some.

And I knew Anders a little bit.

We corresponded some.

So I sort of felt like I was... And both of them actually tragically have died in the last

Three or four years, I think.

Oh, that's very sad.

Yeah, I think both recently.

Flow doesn't play a big role in the deep work framework, right?

So when I was trying to justify deep work, so why focusing without distraction was important, I was drawing a lot more for Anders' work, right?

Because why is focusing without...