Dr. Carol Swain

Certainly my pleasure.

I can tell you that discovering that I had been victimized 26 years ago was a shocker. And then the process, what I watched unfold over the next few months was very eye-opening. Because in the past, when people were caught plagiarizing, If they were journalists, they paid a price. And institutions used to monitor that.

I can tell you that discovering that I had been victimized 26 years ago was a shocker. And then the process, what I watched unfold over the next few months was very eye-opening. Because in the past, when people were caught plagiarizing, If they were journalists, they paid a price. And institutions used to monitor that.

But I learned that in the case of Claudine Gay and Harvard, what they did was stand behind her and even try to redefine plagiarism as duplicative language without attribution.

But I learned that in the case of Claudine Gay and Harvard, what they did was stand behind her and even try to redefine plagiarism as duplicative language without attribution.

Well, Claudine Gay was Harvard University's first black president and second woman president, and she served a tenure of six months. And the plagiarism issue, it's my understanding from the reporters who had investigated it, that rumors had been swirling around, you know, for years.

Well, Claudine Gay was Harvard University's first black president and second woman president, and she served a tenure of six months. And the plagiarism issue, it's my understanding from the reporters who had investigated it, that rumors had been swirling around, you know, for years.

And before she gave disastrous testimony in the House about anti-Semitism, there were already people hot on the trail. But the story broke December 10th, 2023. This was after her testimony before Congress, along with two other presidents of Ivy League colleges. Well, when the story broke, Initially, when I found out about it, first, I was not quick to rush to judgment.

And before she gave disastrous testimony in the House about anti-Semitism, there were already people hot on the trail. But the story broke December 10th, 2023. This was after her testimony before Congress, along with two other presidents of Ivy League colleges. Well, when the story broke, Initially, when I found out about it, first, I was not quick to rush to judgment.

I thought it could have been an accident that when you're doing a lot of research, maybe you forget to put the quotation. People can make innocent mistakes that were not meant to be plagiarism. And so I read her work and I became deeply troubled. That was my first reaction, deeply troubled.

I thought it could have been an accident that when you're doing a lot of research, maybe you forget to put the quotation. People can make innocent mistakes that were not meant to be plagiarism. And so I read her work and I became deeply troubled. That was my first reaction, deeply troubled.

But when Harvard came out standing behind her, then it began to turn to anger, especially when they tried to redefine Pleasureism, because I knew that with Harvard being a world-class university. They would call themselves the world-class university. If Harvard redefines plagiarism, it has a downstream effect on every other institution, including K through 12 education.

But when Harvard came out standing behind her, then it began to turn to anger, especially when they tried to redefine Pleasureism, because I knew that with Harvard being a world-class university. They would call themselves the world-class university. If Harvard redefines plagiarism, it has a downstream effect on every other institution, including K through 12 education.

And so I started giving interviews. I believe I gave 83 interviews between December 10th and the end of January, all sorts of media. And then when she resigned on January 2nd and this book, The Gay Affair, Harvard Pleasureism, and the Death of Academic Integrity was timed to be released January 2nd, which is the anniversary of when she resigned.

And so I started giving interviews. I believe I gave 83 interviews between December 10th and the end of January, all sorts of media. And then when she resigned on January 2nd and this book, The Gay Affair, Harvard Pleasureism, and the Death of Academic Integrity was timed to be released January 2nd, which is the anniversary of when she resigned.

She resigned and she blamed racism, and that was a bridge too far for me.

She resigned and she blamed racism, and that was a bridge too far for me.

Well, I mean, that's a serious problem because we know at Harvard and most institutions, students have been suspended and they have been failed for courses and they have paid a price. The faculty have tenure and I think institutions decide that they don't want to deal with tenured faculty. But in the case of Claudine Gay, her dissertation is where I found plagiarism of my first book.

Well, I mean, that's a serious problem because we know at Harvard and most institutions, students have been suspended and they have been failed for courses and they have paid a price. The faculty have tenure and I think institutions decide that they don't want to deal with tenured faculty. But in the case of Claudine Gay, her dissertation is where I found plagiarism of my first book.

Black Faces, Black Interests, the Representation of African Americans in Congress. And, you know, when I got my Ph.D., you had to have original research that had to be defended before a committee. It had to be pathbreaking. And for her to be able to get a Ph.D. from Harvard, win a prize for that Ph.D., and have a rapid rise in academia...