Dr. Caroline Fleck

So the skills that we learn, you start out with just a couple that basically signal engagement, that help me engage, and help me listen in a way that will foster understanding and empathy. Okay? But here's the thing. I don't have to validate the entirety of someone's experience.

So the skills that we learn, you start out with just a couple that basically signal engagement, that help me engage, and help me listen in a way that will foster understanding and empathy. Okay? But here's the thing. I don't have to validate the entirety of someone's experience.

So when I'm working with, say, a schizophrenic client, someone who literally is seeing and hearing things that are not there... And this person is reacting to me as though I'm a threat. I'm trying to kill them or something. And I'm not. I don't agree with those thoughts, not by any stretch of the imagination. That is not valid.

So when I'm working with, say, a schizophrenic client, someone who literally is seeing and hearing things that are not there... And this person is reacting to me as though I'm a threat. I'm trying to kill them or something. And I'm not. I don't agree with those thoughts, not by any stretch of the imagination. That is not valid.

However, the feeling of fear and the desire to protect themselves, given what they're thinking, makes sense. I can validate that. I can go a step further and say, would you feel more comfortable taping, recording this conversation? Because I understand that you don't trust me right now.

However, the feeling of fear and the desire to protect themselves, given what they're thinking, makes sense. I can validate that. I can go a step further and say, would you feel more comfortable taping, recording this conversation? Because I understand that you don't trust me right now.

And if I wasn't feeling trust towards the person who I was talking to, I might want some recording so I could go back to it.

And if I wasn't feeling trust towards the person who I was talking to, I might want some recording so I could go back to it.

Right. I'm not saying I agree with your thoughts, but I see the validity in your feeling and I can attend to that. Does that make sense? So like that is critical because what we tend to focus on is behavior that we don't like, we don't agree with, and we fail to attend to the valid emotions behind it.

Right. I'm not saying I agree with your thoughts, but I see the validity in your feeling and I can attend to that. Does that make sense? So like that is critical because what we tend to focus on is behavior that we don't like, we don't agree with, and we fail to attend to the valid emotions behind it.

Okay. The model I use is called the validation ladder, and it includes eight skills. Okay. And I won't go through them all, but essentially validation conveys mindfulness, understanding, and empathy in a way that makes the other person feel accepted. So at the bare minimum, if I don't understand or empathize with someone, all I can do is be mindful and engaged.

Okay. The model I use is called the validation ladder, and it includes eight skills. Okay. And I won't go through them all, but essentially validation conveys mindfulness, understanding, and empathy in a way that makes the other person feel accepted. So at the bare minimum, if I don't understand or empathize with someone, all I can do is be mindful and engaged.

And to be mindful, you need to project non-judgment. So it's not just listening, OK, because people can tell when you are listening and coming up with your rebuttal and your counter argument or your judgments. So you have to listen in such a way that projects curiosity. And we know how to do that. All right. You use specific nonverbals and you play this little game in your head.

And to be mindful, you need to project non-judgment. So it's not just listening, OK, because people can tell when you are listening and coming up with your rebuttal and your counter argument or your judgments. So you have to listen in such a way that projects curiosity. And we know how to do that. All right. You use specific nonverbals and you play this little game in your head.

Which is amazing and super effective. You want me to talk about it?

Which is amazing and super effective. You want me to talk about it?

I'm kind of embarrassed. Okay. It's a little therapist trick, but it is. It's how we attend. If I'm sitting across from someone and you're talking to me, the game I'm playing in my head is to solve or figure out this kind of two-part riddle. What's your point? Why do you care about it? And how do I improve upon it? How could I crystallize that argument better?

I'm kind of embarrassed. Okay. It's a little therapist trick, but it is. It's how we attend. If I'm sitting across from someone and you're talking to me, the game I'm playing in my head is to solve or figure out this kind of two-part riddle. What's your point? Why do you care about it? And how do I improve upon it? How could I crystallize that argument better?

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're just thinking on your feet and you're throwing all this together. So in my mind, I'm thinking just how do I make this point better than you're making it now? It's kind of like when you're in a debate and you have to argue a position you don't necessarily agree with, right? Like why you should smoke.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're just thinking on your feet and you're throwing all this together. So in my mind, I'm thinking just how do I make this point better than you're making it now? It's kind of like when you're in a debate and you have to argue a position you don't necessarily agree with, right? Like why you should smoke.