Dr. Caroline Fleck

And your job is just to kind of formulate the best argument you can. That's essentially what you're doing. So you start asking questions to try and understand their position better. And you're just tweaking it and tweaking it. If you watch great interviewers like late night hosts, you'll see you can see them playing a version of this game. They're trying to pull out the best interview they can.

And your job is just to kind of formulate the best argument you can. That's essentially what you're doing. So you start asking questions to try and understand their position better. And you're just tweaking it and tweaking it. If you watch great interviewers like late night hosts, you'll see you can see them playing a version of this game. They're trying to pull out the best interview they can.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they agree with what the other person is saying or whatever. They're just trying to crystallize that message. And that informs how they listen and then the questions they ask. And without fail, there's a sense of genuine curiosity there because it's genuinely there.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they agree with what the other person is saying or whatever. They're just trying to crystallize that message. And that informs how they listen and then the questions they ask. And without fail, there's a sense of genuine curiosity there because it's genuinely there.

Okay, so as I'm playing that game, I'm just asking at this level, it's just kind of mindful awareness that I'm projecting here. And as I'm listening, I am hearing the emotion. I am starting to make connections in my head. I am looking for what is the kernel of truth in what this person is saying? Where is this coming from? What is the feeling behind this? What function does this behavior serve?

Okay, so as I'm playing that game, I'm just asking at this level, it's just kind of mindful awareness that I'm projecting here. And as I'm listening, I am hearing the emotion. I am starting to make connections in my head. I am looking for what is the kernel of truth in what this person is saying? Where is this coming from? What is the feeling behind this? What function does this behavior serve?

With suicidality, it's often relief from pain. If they had a way to relieve pain, they would take it. And this is the only option they see. I don't agree with that. But importantly, validation does not require agreement. I'm a vegetarian, but I could validate why somebody would choose to eat meat. That doesn't mean I agree with them. I just see the validity in their argument.

With suicidality, it's often relief from pain. If they had a way to relieve pain, they would take it. And this is the only option they see. I don't agree with that. But importantly, validation does not require agreement. I'm a vegetarian, but I could validate why somebody would choose to eat meat. That doesn't mean I agree with them. I just see the validity in their argument.

And I can focus on that instead of the part that I disagree with. And importantly, if I focus on that first, the conversation around perhaps changing their opinion is much more likely to be successful.

And I can focus on that instead of the part that I disagree with. And importantly, if I focus on that first, the conversation around perhaps changing their opinion is much more likely to be successful.

Validate the valid. Yeah.

Validate the valid. Yeah.

That's when I pivot to more like behavioral stuff. Okay. So that would be, you know, we have all sorts of reinforcement shaping that we do to try and kind of nudge the person in the other direction. But the interesting thing is the person will just be more receptive to you. you're curious, they absorb that curiosity.

That's when I pivot to more like behavioral stuff. Okay. So that would be, you know, we have all sorts of reinforcement shaping that we do to try and kind of nudge the person in the other direction. But the interesting thing is the person will just be more receptive to you. you're curious, they absorb that curiosity.

So one of the other mindfulness skills we use here, there's that attending one and then there's copying. which sounds so weird. But let me tell you, if you are like up at night, you can't sleep. Google the research on mimicry or copying. It is fascinating stuff. Like simply copying another person's body language. Okay.

So one of the other mindfulness skills we use here, there's that attending one and then there's copying. which sounds so weird. But let me tell you, if you are like up at night, you can't sleep. Google the research on mimicry or copying. It is fascinating stuff. Like simply copying another person's body language. Okay.

It does.

It does.

Yeah, it does.

Yeah, it does.