Dr. David Burns

but perhaps somewhat limiting training might not, but we'll find out. We'll dive in and see what's under the surface with regard to coaching.

So Angela, what's a coach?

So Angela, what's a coach?

When you say some therapists are moving toward coaching, you mean they're trying to become coaches or they're moving to the more positive model of therapy that we've been developing?

When you say some therapists are moving toward coaching, you mean they're trying to become coaches or they're moving to the more positive model of therapy that we've been developing?

Right. Well, that's super important because, you know, my research and my whole career has been kind of focused around the fact that doing your psychotherapy homework is going to make all the difference between success or failure in therapy, whether you call it therapy or coaching or whatever. So I'm certainly sympathetic to that approach. not wanting to you know focus on on analyzing the past.

Right. Well, that's super important because, you know, my research and my whole career has been kind of focused around the fact that doing your psychotherapy homework is going to make all the difference between success or failure in therapy, whether you call it therapy or coaching or whatever. So I'm certainly sympathetic to that approach. not wanting to you know focus on on analyzing the past.

I've had a lot of patients, not a lot, but from time to time, people who said, I really want you to help me analyze my past so I can find out why I'm like the way I am. Why do I procrastinate? Why am I so depressed? Why am I so anxious? What kind of childhood experiences cause this? And then I've always told them, you know, I'm not much of an expert in causes. All I know about is cures.

I've had a lot of patients, not a lot, but from time to time, people who said, I really want you to help me analyze my past so I can find out why I'm like the way I am. Why do I procrastinate? Why am I so depressed? Why am I so anxious? What kind of childhood experiences cause this? And then I've always told them, you know, I'm not much of an expert in causes. All I know about is cures.

But I do have a rule that I will be willing to explore your past with you, but only after you're cured. And so if after you've found joy and happiness, you still want to explore your past, you just let me know and we'll talk about it to your heart's content. But I never had one person take me up on that.

But I do have a rule that I will be willing to explore your past with you, but only after you're cured. And so if after you've found joy and happiness, you still want to explore your past, you just let me know and we'll talk about it to your heart's content. But I never had one person take me up on that.

Yeah. You know, I do something called causal modeling when I analyze app data. And it's a very precise form of statistics. You have to have careful measurements and then you build mathematical models and you can test your hypotheses about causes. And the model will tell you two things. First of all, whether or not your model even makes sense from a statistical point of view.

Yeah. You know, I do something called causal modeling when I analyze app data. And it's a very precise form of statistics. You have to have careful measurements and then you build mathematical models and you can test your hypotheses about causes. And the model will tell you two things. First of all, whether or not your model even makes sense from a statistical point of view.

And I would say 90% of the time, the computer tells you your model doesn't make sense, your thinking sucks. And there's no point in interpreting the results of this analysis because the very analysis itself is misguided. And then sometimes it'll tell you, yes, this model does fit the data. That doesn't mean it's a true model, but it is consistent with your data.

And I would say 90% of the time, the computer tells you your model doesn't make sense, your thinking sucks. And there's no point in interpreting the results of this analysis because the very analysis itself is misguided. And then sometimes it'll tell you, yes, this model does fit the data. That doesn't mean it's a true model, but it is consistent with your data.

And then it tells you whether your hypotheses are valid or invalid or kind of fence sitters that can't be decided. And most of the time, the computer shows you that your causal hypothesis of what's causing depression, what causes change in people who use the app, that these beliefs that we have about things simply aren't correct.

And then it tells you whether your hypotheses are valid or invalid or kind of fence sitters that can't be decided. And most of the time, the computer shows you that your causal hypothesis of what's causing depression, what causes change in people who use the app, that these beliefs that we have about things simply aren't correct.

And it happens rapidly, and the computer can dispute as many as 20 theories per hour very easily. And I think I've told this story before, but I gave a great workshop. The workshop was really well received. And I know you've been to a lot of my workshops, Angela, going back a long time. And I can picture you right now being in my workshops up near the front row and saying, I wonder who she is.

And it happens rapidly, and the computer can dispute as many as 20 theories per hour very easily. And I think I've told this story before, but I gave a great workshop. The workshop was really well received. And I know you've been to a lot of my workshops, Angela, going back a long time. And I can picture you right now being in my workshops up near the front row and saying, I wonder who she is.

She seems to be in a lot of my workshops and she must be a really neat person. I found out you were. But this fellow drove me to the airport and he said he was a psychiatrist and he loved the workshop. But he said, it just seems to me you're messing out on an important thing, which is you don't seem to address the causes of depression and anxiety.