Dr. David Burns

And I think that many people with the using our, now that we've got the AI as well, are experiencing better empathy even than from their loved ones or from shrinks who were theoretically experts in empathy. And so I think that's surprising. And then the other thing is, does it make any difference?

And I think that many people with the using our, now that we've got the AI as well, are experiencing better empathy even than from their loved ones or from shrinks who were theoretically experts in empathy. And so I think that's surprising. And then the other thing is, does it make any difference?

Because there's been a controversy since the time of Carl Rogers, who said that empathy is the necessary and sufficient condition for personality change. And so idealistic therapists for decades thought all you have to do is be warm and caring, and then the patient will recover. And that turned out to be not true for the most part.

Because there's been a controversy since the time of Carl Rogers, who said that empathy is the necessary and sufficient condition for personality change. And so idealistic therapists for decades thought all you have to do is be warm and caring, and then the patient will recover. And that turned out to be not true for the most part.

But I did publish a study, the first study in the world literature to measure the causal effects of empathy from therapists, human therapists. This was using my clinic in Philadelphia.

But I did publish a study, the first study in the world literature to measure the causal effects of empathy from therapists, human therapists. This was using my clinic in Philadelphia.

And the data, and I published it in the world's top psychology research journal, Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, showed a modest, not an amazing, but a modest causal effect of empathy on reduction in depressed feelings. It wasn't enough to cause recovery. but it was significant.

And the data, and I published it in the world's top psychology research journal, Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, showed a modest, not an amazing, but a modest causal effect of empathy on reduction in depressed feelings. It wasn't enough to cause recovery. but it was significant.

And the study also showed that other techniques are necessary to get all the way to complete recovery from depression. But I decided to repeat that with the app, and I used something called...

And the study also showed that other techniques are necessary to get all the way to complete recovery from depression. But I decided to repeat that with the app, and I used something called...

projection into linear space, which is a pretty sophisticated statistical technique where you can measure circular causality and purge variables of contaminating influences that could throw your statistics off. And that study has shown that the empathy that people receive from the app does have actually fairly significant causal effects on reducing depression and anxiety.

projection into linear space, which is a pretty sophisticated statistical technique where you can measure circular causality and purge variables of contaminating influences that could throw your statistics off. And that study has shown that the empathy that people receive from the app does have actually fairly significant causal effects on reducing depression and anxiety.

There was no causal effect in the opposite direction. Depression and anxiety levels don't influence their estimate of the app's empathy and warmth and understanding. But the degree of warmth and understanding they experience does have causal effects in improving their moods. Again, it didn't cause complete recovery, but it can happen fast within the first 10 minutes with the app.

There was no causal effect in the opposite direction. Depression and anxiety levels don't influence their estimate of the app's empathy and warmth and understanding. But the degree of warmth and understanding they experience does have causal effects in improving their moods. Again, it didn't cause complete recovery, but it can happen fast within the first 10 minutes with the app.

And that can do a lot to, to raise somebody's optimism. And then you need many other techniques to, to go further. And that's, we've been, you know, I've developed 140 techniques to antidote depression and anxiety, and we're training the, the, uh, our, our AI, uh, to, to use, uh, all of them, not all of them yet, but we're adding, you know, frequently. So it, it's kind of a cool thing. And, uh,

And that can do a lot to, to raise somebody's optimism. And then you need many other techniques to, to go further. And that's, we've been, you know, I've developed 140 techniques to antidote depression and anxiety, and we're training the, the, uh, our, our AI, uh, to, to use, uh, all of them, not all of them yet, but we're adding, you know, frequently. So it, it's kind of a cool thing. And, uh,

You know, I once had this fellow, Sterling Morey, come from England. He was a medical student with no experience sitting in with me doing therapy in the early part of my cognitive therapy practice. He came to Philadelphia to learn cognitive therapy, so... I let him sit in with me, and he was nervous as hell, and he was young and had no psychology classes or anything.

You know, I once had this fellow, Sterling Morey, come from England. He was a medical student with no experience sitting in with me doing therapy in the early part of my cognitive therapy practice. He came to Philadelphia to learn cognitive therapy, so... I let him sit in with me, and he was nervous as hell, and he was young and had no psychology classes or anything.

But his empathy was world class, and people loved him instantly. And I was the teacher. He was the student. And I said, man, I've got to learn what this guy is doing because it's amazing, and he's way ahead of me. And then I learned to do what he does, and that's what I've trained the app to do. And the patients didn't care that he was young and inexperienced.

But his empathy was world class, and people loved him instantly. And I was the teacher. He was the student. And I said, man, I've got to learn what this guy is doing because it's amazing, and he's way ahead of me. And then I learned to do what he does, and that's what I've trained the app to do. And the patients didn't care that he was young and inexperienced.