Dr. David Burns

Well, I'll give first round to you three, and then I'll mention a bunch of techniques for challenging self-defeating beliefs. We're working on a class on self-defeating beliefs for the app, actually. So it's been at the top of the agenda in recent weeks, so it was a great question. But let's let the... The three of you share your expertise, and then I'll chime in.

Okay, we've got Rhonda and Jason are up to that. Well, let me just make one comment on what you said. What is a self-defeating belief? I'll attach the list of 23 self-defeating beliefs to the show notes. So if you read the show notes, then you can look and circle the ones that resonate with you. And they're all different, but it's the philosophy that's going on under the surface.

Okay, we've got Rhonda and Jason are up to that. Well, let me just make one comment on what you said. What is a self-defeating belief? I'll attach the list of 23 self-defeating beliefs to the show notes. So if you read the show notes, then you can look and circle the ones that resonate with you. And they're all different, but it's the philosophy that's going on under the surface.

And a lot of self-defeating beliefs are what we call self-esteem equations. It's like I need substance X to be worthwhile, to be happy and worthwhile. That's the belief. And it might be perfection. I have to be perfect to be worthwhile. Or my worth depends on my achievements. Or I need love to be worthwhile. Or I need approval to be worthwhile. And then the theory of it is that that...

And a lot of self-defeating beliefs are what we call self-esteem equations. It's like I need substance X to be worthwhile, to be happy and worthwhile. That's the belief. And it might be perfection. I have to be perfect to be worthwhile. Or my worth depends on my achievements. Or I need love to be worthwhile. Or I need approval to be worthwhile. And then the theory of it is that that...

perfectionism or love addiction or approval addiction or whatever is with you all the time, but it only kicks into upsetting you when a particular kind of negative event happens. So that, let's say you have the approval addiction, I need everyone's approval to feel happy and worthwhile. then if you are getting people's approval, you'll feel great. You'll be terrific.

perfectionism or love addiction or approval addiction or whatever is with you all the time, but it only kicks into upsetting you when a particular kind of negative event happens. So that, let's say you have the approval addiction, I need everyone's approval to feel happy and worthwhile. then if you are getting people's approval, you'll feel great. You'll be terrific.

But we would predict that you would crash when you get disapproval, when people are judging you, when people are criticizing you, then you'd have a lot of negative thoughts flowing through your mind. You tell yourself, oh, my gosh, I'm a loser. I'm no good. These people hate me or whatever you're you're thinking, and then you're going to get sad, anxious, and depressed, and guilty, and ashamed.

But we would predict that you would crash when you get disapproval, when people are judging you, when people are criticizing you, then you'd have a lot of negative thoughts flowing through your mind. You tell yourself, oh, my gosh, I'm a loser. I'm no good. These people hate me or whatever you're you're thinking, and then you're going to get sad, anxious, and depressed, and guilty, and ashamed.

So that the self-defeating belief tells us what kind of things will trigger your mood slumps, and it will explain the timing to a certain extent of mood slumps. That's the basic theory at any rate. and it has what's called heuristic value.

So that the self-defeating belief tells us what kind of things will trigger your mood slumps, and it will explain the timing to a certain extent of mood slumps. That's the basic theory at any rate. and it has what's called heuristic value.

It makes sense to people and seems helpful to people, which isn't the same as scientific truth, because sometimes when you try to test these things scientifically, they don't pan out. But that's the basic idea and theory of a self-defeating belief. Back to you guys.

It makes sense to people and seems helpful to people, which isn't the same as scientific truth, because sometimes when you try to test these things scientifically, they don't pan out. But that's the basic idea and theory of a self-defeating belief. Back to you guys.

That's exactly right.

That's exactly right.

Okay, that's cool. I'll give you some techniques for challenging self-defeating beliefs. One thing to do first, let's say you have this idea, my worthwhileness depends on my achievements. And you brought that up as a potential problem in therapy, that that's maybe a source of your anxiety and a source of your... depression or whatever.

Okay, that's cool. I'll give you some techniques for challenging self-defeating beliefs. One thing to do first, let's say you have this idea, my worthwhileness depends on my achievements. And you brought that up as a potential problem in therapy, that that's maybe a source of your anxiety and a source of your... depression or whatever.

And it might have come up from an uncovering technique, like a downward arrow technique. And then how would you change that? That idea of my worthwhileness depends on my accomplishments or my intelligence or my success in life. And the cost-benefit analysis is based on the idea that the term self-defeating beliefs is somewhat misleading, right?

And it might have come up from an uncovering technique, like a downward arrow technique. And then how would you change that? That idea of my worthwhileness depends on my accomplishments or my intelligence or my success in life. And the cost-benefit analysis is based on the idea that the term self-defeating beliefs is somewhat misleading, right?

And Albert Ellis called them irrational beliefs, which is also somewhat misleading because it implies that they're bad or they're going to defeat you or they're kind of irrational. The way I look at a self-defeating belief, it's more like a two-edged sword. It actually has a lot of benefits for you as well as a price to pay.