Dr. David DeSteno

And then at that point you would take the psychedelic.

And we had Michael Pollan on my show.

And then when he said, he told me, he said, Dave, the one thing that's really important when you take psilocybin is you have to feel supremely safe.

Because when that moment of self dissolution comes or ego death comes, it can be beautiful or it can be terrifying.

And if you don't feel safe,

it can go the wrong way.

And you know, the data show about 25% of trips are bad, about 8% are so bad that they necessitate some type of mental health intervention.

And so you have the shaman with you.

You have the experience of ego death.

You see whatever you're going to see.

And that person helps you reintegrate that and make sense of it.

So, you know, at Hopkins where they're doing great work, they don't have a

religious shaman, but they have a guide, right?

The guide is with you.

You form a relationship with this person during your trip.

The person is there with you.

They'll put their hand on your hand.

They're there to help make sense and keep you feeling safe.

They're doing the same role as a shaman.

But if you're in Brooklyn, you know, dropping psilocybin with your local Brooklyn hipsters without the container around to keep you safe,