Dr. Hillary Goldsher

that your external matters and no one is operating in a naive fashion in that regard.

So that's true.

The other thing that's true, I mean, I'm sort of stating the obvious, but it kind of should be said is that even back in the 90s, I mean, the paradigm was different, but still the idea of kindness predate then, right?

And so being able to have more sensitive conversations seemed to be

I just want to say from like a psycho education standpoint, and maybe it's useful to you guys as you're listening to this, but yes, it's true.

Some of, some of it, Will was quote on you, but when someone has depression or anxiety and is depressed,

demonstrating, embodying those symptoms, asking them to quote, stop doing that is like asking someone with strep throat, not to have a sore throat.

Like, come on, just stop.

And it's not a thing.

And so I know what you're saying that on like a holistic gestalt level, yes, you're responsible for how you move through the world, but you were dealing with some health issues that have particular symptoms and the particular symptoms of an anxiety disorder are all encompassing and

hellish to endure and so it is inevitable if someone has an untreated anxiety disorder or an anxiety disorder that is not well managed that there's going to be symptoms and those symptoms are going to be to seek to suppress the overwhelming feelings of anxiety whatever that means whether that's drinking eating too much sleeping too much all the things and so it's part of a mental health issue that gets um

sort of a bad rap, so to speak, because those behaviors are, you know, not are distasteful, but they truly are part of the composition of a mental health disorder, particularly an anxiety disorder.

I was just going to say that it seems to me there needs to be like a co-creation between the folks that are kind of managing the set, bringing a sensitivity and an ability to have discourse about these kind of issues and the ability for the actor themselves to engage in self-advocacy.

I'm curious for you guys, based on what you're saying, it sounds like

the notion of self-advocacy on this set wasn't available to you.

I'm glad we're talking about this advocacy piece, just as your listeners contemplate the more holistic macro issue of mental health stuff, you know, that one of the ways that we move towards health and recovery is just saying the thing, you know, saying to like some trusted other.

And I hear that on that set, it seemed almost impossible, but finding some corner in your world of being able to eke out some messaging around something

suffering or discomfort is critical to finding, like, an opening, you know?

And how have you guys over time decoupled your sense of self worth from your body given early experiences?

Sometimes as a clinician, I will make what I call like process comments, which is to reveal how my body is feeling when clients or folks that I'm talking to share things.