Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy. Not quite. On Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between-songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.
Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the Enhanced Games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.
Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Keir Gaines. This space is about Black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit of armor?
It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability, that does not mean that you need to. Listen to Learn the Hard Way on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
My mother-in-law spent years sabotaging our relationship until karma made her pay for it. She moved in for two weeks, lasted five days, left a mess, and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming. When kicked out to a hotel, she called her son-in-law's workplace, pretending his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance. Faked a medical emergency?
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Chapter 2: What episode of Boy Meets World is being recapped?
This is just a clear trajectory to causing those sorts of issues for young people. And so I first just want to say, I'm so sorry. There's nothing about this that is okay. And I think the story might be that you're so used to the story that there's a part of you that might not recognize how not okay this is.
I think we recognize it now, but I think we've spent so many years suppressing the feelings about it because it is overwhelming. And when I really think about those young people we were, the 22-year-old Will with
Everything he was going through personally that he had not really ever openly expressed to any of us at the time with mental health struggles and anxiety and new medications and, you know, all of that. And then being in denial that maybe people didn't notice he had put on any weight. And then like I when I think about that, my heart breaks. just breaks for him.
And I have, anytime I've thought about it for myself and my own story, it's so emotionally hard for me to think about. I mean, it truly kickstarted what I think was probably a, like an, I mean, definitely disordered eating and, and a, and a disordered relationship with food, uh, probably for my entire life.
But even I really think, um, I think alcohol, I think, um, numbing, numbing myself and, and being able to turn off my brain and, um, um, alcohol became, became that go-to, which of course was then a vicious cycle because alcohol is, it puts on weight and slows your metabolism and stops you from digesting food.
And there's, there's, you know, truthfully, I'm not, I'm not trying to say anything negative about people's decisions to drink, but as somebody who doesn't drink anymore. And I, I mean, I, I don't see a single pro to alcohol. I mean, it really, it causes so many problems, both personally, interpersonally, the world over. And I, but it took me a long time.
It was the only way that I could get my brain to shut off for a really long time. So yeah, I think you're right. We're, we're used to the story, but also we've had, we have years of practice suppressing.
Yeah. Well, and there's the double shame that you both were forced to experience, which is the original weight gain, which appeared to me to be subtle and in the normal range. And then there's the experience of having to have it called out in this unceremonious way in your workplace and then publicly and have it not held up in any way, shape or form other than for public consumption.
And so I can see how it jumpstarted an intense shame cycle made further shameful by the need for it to be suppressed and or laughed at or accepted. And, you know, I wanted to hold up that the distinction seems important. There's weight gain that occurs in puberty and as people are getting older and that's normal.
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Chapter 3: How did the actors feel about their experiences on set?
On Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group? The worst?
yeah me is there anything to the idea that because you're from harvard uh you only got in because your parents made a huge donation to the group the yard birds right that's the name the harvard yard but they're open suggestion we're open since you guys are middle-aged uh one erection
Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.
Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Lil' Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people? I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Lil' Kim?
Well, you can find out on the Look Back At It podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack.
Yeah.
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Chapter 4: What insights does Dr. Goldsher provide about body image and mental health?
We also have eggs on the table right now.
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Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keir Gaines. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing...
Chapter 5: How did the cast members cope with weight gain during filming?
We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you're here on Earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid?
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You know, I'm thinking about, because we were recapping the episode and Ryder mentioned whether or not it would have been different for us had they brought in a clinician, similarly to the way we have intimacy coordinators now on set. And hearing you, Dr. Goldsher, talk about this and hearing Will mention that over the course of seven seasons, multiple times he was talked to about his weight,
It really is. I've never thought about the fact. I don't know why I've never thought about this until right now. That there was never even the slightest bit of pretending that anyone was concerned about us. No. They were just angry about it. The feeling was, like you are saying, Dr. Goldsher, you should feel shame. You should be ashamed.
Right. Wait was moralized in a way, right?
Yes. What's wrong with you? This is a failing.
Well, because it's totally in your control, quote unquote. So it's like you've done this to yourself.
And why are you doing this? But not from a concerned place at all.
No, no, no. I also, I'm curious, Danielle and Ryder, just because you know him, which, of course, in the 90s, nobody was really openly talking about their mental health. So, you know, I wasn't going to people and saying, hey, I'm dealing with an anxiety disorder. I don't know what it is. I'm still struggling with it. They're putting me on this medication. They're putting me on that medication.
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Chapter 6: What were the reactions to the episode's portrayal of weight issues?
Do you want to, because you're learning how to cook for yourself, you've just moved out of your parents' house, like whatever the situation is, Oh, you're also going out at night and you're drinking alcohol for the first time. The way a lot of college kids do. I think of those years for me from 18, even though I was on Boy Meets World and not in college, those are college years. I moved out.
I immediately started going out and doing college kid things. Like knowing that Malibu and pineapple, which was my favorite drink at 18, you know, that has a lot of calories. Even just... And solely from the standpoint of, we want you to be the healthiest version of yourself. This person was making so much money, so much money. And I was significantly underpaid.
Had he cared at all about, one, getting what he wanted, which is for me to get back to some sort of his version of... Your body. My body, my figure, my whatever. Had he cared actually about that instead of just making me feel bad, there were a million different ways they could have gone about it. And instead of just passive aggressively shaming me.
Yeah. Well, this is also something that was... happening quite a bit before us and then during us. I mean, I remember Tracy Gold on Growing Pains famously has talked about her eating disorders and anorexia, excuse me.
And there's, I mean, you hear about people on 90210 and all these kind of shows where the women, especially, because the guys, it wasn't about the guys, you were just lazy if you're a guy, but the women were... shame to the point of eating disorders where it's like, we, you, you can't look like this and be on TV. So has my, my, my big question is, has it changed? Like, I don't know.
I mean, I, I honestly, I've not been on sets enough lately, especially with young people around, like, do, are they having more constructive conversations around actors or actors still treated with shame and the sort of tough talk? Right.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I was just going to say that it seems to me there needs to be like a co-creation between the folks that are kind of managing the set, bringing a sensitivity and an ability to have discourse about these kind of issues and the ability for the actor themselves to engage in self-advocacy. I'm curious for you guys, based on what you're saying, it sounds like
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Chapter 7: How did societal expectations impact the actors' self-perception?
Um, so I, I often hear myself talking about what happened on Boy Meets World as if I'm saying we were on the worst play, you know, and we just weren't. We had a wonderful time. But, yeah, there was a lot in the culture that needed to change at the time.
I'm glad we're talking about this advocacy piece, just as your listeners contemplate the more holistic macro issue of mental health stuff, you know, that one of the ways that we move towards health and recovery is just saying the thing, you know, saying to like some trusted other.
And I hear that on that set, it seemed almost impossible, but finding some corner in your world of being able to eke out some messaging around something suffering or discomfort is critical to finding, like, an opening, you know?
Yeah, well, we've talked about it, unfortunately, even with each other. As much as we were together and loved each other and were friends, we couldn't talk about these things to each other back then. You know, it wasn't... And even, like, it's funny because even... talking about acting too much, we've realized was like considered a weakness.
Like if we took acting too seriously, which is you think the number one thing you would want as a job, like we have to make this seem good. How do we act? If you talked about that too much, you were being self-indulgent and ridiculous and you were taking yourself too seriously. So we had this atmosphere on the set of like, no, we're all here to just have fun and this is easy for us.
And that's effortless. Yeah, it's effortless. If you show any weakness or any effort, That's a sign that you don't belong here.
Trying is a weakness.
Yeah. Because, I mean, we watched people get fired. Children got fired around us left and right. So there was a sense that if you gummed me up or slowed down the process in any way that you would probably get fired. Yeah. Yeah. It's terrifying.
Yeah.
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Chapter 8: What changes have occurred in the industry regarding mental health?
The fact that staying thin was not something that was part of my genetics. I remember being able to look around my high school girlfriends, cause I did go back to my regular high school every hiatus week. And I had friends whose bodies are just genetically different than mine.
They could still at in high school, have pizza and Doritos at lunch with a soda and never, never weigh more than 94 pounds. And they were cheerleaders and, you know, super active. And what, and I, I, I just, that wasn't my body type. That wasn't my body style. And that felt like a failure also. It didn't feel like, oh, well, we're just different. It was like, what's wrong with me?
Like, why is, what's wrong with me? So yeah, the idea that, It didn't seem as though Maitland or Trina, the other, or even Betsy, the other, I certainly didn't know what they were doing as far as their diets or their exercise regimen. I didn't know. But it didn't seem like it was something that they needed to think about 24 hours a day.
And for me, it felt like if I have to think about this all the time, it can be the only thought in my head. Yeah. So yeah.
And how have you guys over time decoupled your sense of self worth from your body given early experiences?
i haven't i don't think i have yeah and i i yeah i never even had an episode written about it but i just have a constant shame and fear about how i look you know and feeling like i'm letting the world down god it's awful i'm yes i'll never be comfortable in my skin it just won't happen so i'd love to get to that point where i am i'm okay with how i look but i never i never
I have this idea in my head that I know is basically unattainable for somebody like me because I work out a lot and it's just not my body genetics. And and it's fine. I'm I'm I say it's fine. It's fine in that I have to somehow get to that point of being OK with it. But I I know I never will. I'm the my wife says this to me all the time. She's like, the only thing I don't like about you.
She's to me. She's the only thing I don't like about you is how harsh you are to yourself.
Yeah.
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