Dr. Holden Thorp

while the next budget bill, for example, gets done, which could have language in it that makes it more difficult to do this.

And then lawsuits could get filed and that could go to the courts.

And we've seen this over and over again in the last 18 months with indirect costs and various grants that got canceled and universities that were prohibited from taking grants.

And so I would expect this to go down a very similar bumpy road that has a lot of back and forth in it.

It certainly has been.

Yeah, and you got to give a lot of credit to a lot of scientists out there who are still getting science done in this environment.

I mean, I go all around the country, and most of the time people want me to explain a lot of these things that are going on and try to cheer them up somehow.

But I think I'm always the one that's cheered up because...

I go to places where there are graduate students and postdocs chugging away in the lab, producing knowledge and going on despite all of the rhetoric and signals that they get that are trying to stop them from doing that.

Well, Holden, thank you for doing what you do.

It's an honor to do it.

And thanks for all you do to get the word out to people.