Dr John Izzo

And how do we get the conversations right?

moving out of the guide rails of what we think is possible, because that's what we've been domesticated into, and the whole value system that we have been taught is right, into the realm of possibility that will take us forward in a new way.

And I would really like to get to that, but before we get to that, I still, and probably we'll get there, how do we reshape governance models, Suzette?

What governance model will have the flexibility to not be reliant

on rising GDP and endless extraction and the destruction of the biophysical reality around us while sustaining social equity and justice?

Which we have to say is not their fault.

That is the system.

That's their job in a way.

And it looks to me like Zoran Mamdani might be going to do that.

Maybe.

I would like to think so.

He's certainly speaking as if that's what he's planning to do.

Or not even having parties.

Why do we need to have parties?

Let's do this.

You would have to wholly remove the capacity to buy people in order to do that, wouldn't you?

Because otherwise, big company X who has billions is going to craft a future.

Because it seems to me that the future that you can forecast...

has a lot of underlying assumptions.

And the person who can blindside you with the slicker underlying assumptions is going to be able to produce the unicorns dancing through the days.