Dr. Layne Norton

Maximova, Maximova, Max something.

And they looked at tertiles of unprocessed red meat intake and tertiles of fruit and vegetable intake.

So you had low, medium, and high of each.

At low intakes of fruit and vegetables, red meat had a negative impact on cancer.

At high intakes of fruits and vegetables and high intake of red meat, there was actually a protective effect of red meat on cancer.

I think it was like a relative risk of 0.78.

It's like a 22% relative risk reduction.

I can't remember if it was statistically different, but the point being –

You're looking at overall diet quality because if you're eating a lot of unprocessed red meat and a lot of fruits and vegetables, you don't have much room for junk, right?

So again, you don't see that stuff pop up consistently in the cohorts or in like the dose response that you would expect.

And again, I've kind of had this –

debate with people more on the plant-based side who have said, well, shouldn't you – like that's just showing that high fruit and vegetables can offset the negative effects of red meat.

I'm like, if something is an independent risk factor, it's going to raise the risk at every single level of everything else, right?

So take LDL for instance.

Yes, if you have high HDL and low LDL and low inflammation –

you have a lower risk than somebody who has high LDL and high inflammation and low HDL, right?

But take inflammation.

At low inflammation, high LDL with low inflammation still has a higher risk than low LDL at low inflammation.

And at high inflammation, high LDL, still increased risk above low LDL at both those levels.

that is when we determine something as an independent risk factor because independent of everything else, it raises the risk and we just don't see that.