Dr. Marc Gafni

We actually prayed together.

And then Ken went and formulated this very beautifully as the three persons or the three faces of God.

Yeah.

It's good for you to go to the dry cleaners.

That's such a big deal.

I mean, that story is so right, and it's right on so many levels, right?

So when I had this original conversation with Ken, the way it started was, and I've learned so much from Ken, and he's been so great in the exchange, our original conversation

you know, at his loft was, you know, kind of a several hour conversation about, you know, the realizations of meditation and how meditation works and, you know, and why you kind of can't find your way without it.

And at the end of those three hours, I shared with Ken, you know, my grandmother, you know, my boobie, you know, my grandmother wouldn't understand a word of what you just said.

She wouldn't attract a word of this.

And my grandmother read the book of Psalms of David's, where David has the exact kind of relationship you just portrayed, this intimate, close, fierce, every flavor of second-person relationship where he was so close to God.

And my grandmother read Psalms every day, and she was closer to God.

and more God-imbued and God-intoxicated and just spoke directly to God.

She understood what the lineage calls the approachability of God.

In other words, she could go directly into the field of the infinite.

It was a given to her.

It was a given to her, not a superstitious given, a realization.

that she could speak directly to God and that God was listening in some profound way.

So that, and we'll talk about, I think we can actually show that to be true, not just have a realization, we can actually share why that's true, but just for now, that's the second person.

In other words, the second person's not a made up idea,