Dr. Rangan Chatterjee

He did manage to phone for help, and then I think he collapsed.

Everyone was safe, right?

I was thinking about that story last night in the context of what you're saying about perseverance.

And I think about that through the lens of both of us are parents.

Surely as a parent, one of the most important things I can give to my children or try and give to my children is this idea that you can overcome things.

You can persist.

Don't give up at the first hurdle.

And I'm guessing that kid must have picked up the idea

Or could you argue, look, this was a life-threatening situation.

He knew if he didn't get to shore, he was going to be dead and his mum and his two siblings were going to be dead as well, right?

So it has a happy ending, but I kind of feel it speaks to what you said about the rats.

It speaks to what you just said about perseverance.

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