Elisa Donovan

Right.

But then in addition to that, it's it is about low desire.

esteem and insecurities.

But I want to make it clear, all of us at some point, worse than others, we all have low self-esteem, right?

We all have insecurities.

So, you know, none of us are free from that.

So keeping that in mind, it's not automatic that somebody is going to develop narcissism or narcissistic personality because they're insecure.

Do most narcissists have extreme insecurities?

Absolutely.

And a lot of these are compensatory strategies.

To kind of make up for that or to avoid it for themselves.

Right, right.

So what's the, I think for a lot of people, is there a distinct difference between somebody who is just very self-involved and somebody who is truly narcissistic?

Yes, yes.

So on the surface, the behaviors can look very similar, right?

So I can seem so self-absorbed.

You can seem so self-absorbed.

But when brought to my attention, let's say it's just a long pattern I've had my entire existence because for whatever reason in my upbringing, that's just how I came to be.

I modeled my parents' behavior, whatever, or I did it because I had to survive childhood, whatever, right?

If someone brings to my, if you bring to my attention, you're like, Jamie, you know what?