Emily Maitlis

And this is what is going to happen.

And what's happened is it looks like Keir Starmer has gone round to the various government departments, said, well, can you chip in a billion here for this defence investment plan?

They go, no, bugger off.

Can you?

No, get lost.

What about you?

Will you give us a... No.

And Keir Starmer is unable to enforce his will

In government.

And this is a failure.

I was talking to a senior government source as well, Emily, who said to me, this is just such a failure in managing a relationship.

I mean, John Healy is not some hot headed kind of person who flies off the handle and storms out of meetings and slams doors.

He is mild-mannered.

He is determined about the threat that this country faces and how the defences of our country need to be improved.

And we've seen that over the past few months, you know, the whole farce of HMS Dragon going out to the eastern Mediterranean and it not being ready.

And then, you know, that being the only ship that we can put to sea that will do that stuff.

So I think that, look, you know, John Healey has been this moderate, mild-mannered man who has been driven to the point of resignation by the failure of number 10 and number 11.

And although they may be short of kit at the Ministry of Defence right now, that is a laser-guided missile that he has fired straight at Downing Street and it's hit its target.

And it's hard to see what emerges from the rubble of this.

We've been speaking...