Esther Perel

Mm-hmm.

That they'd been hurt.

And they were still hurting from that incident.

Not now, no.

Mm-hmm.

No.

Yeah.

How rare is it to be able to get to a place that you just spoke of where a relationship…

for want of a bit of a term, is actually stronger because of the infidelity.

How rare is that?

I completely understand what you're saying with those scenarios that they break up or they stay together and then it becomes this issue that they just can't move forward with or they can actually grow.

Is it quite rare to see that growth take place?

Disproportionate.

I want to talk about the cards in a second because I'm already planning a session with our staff because they're so great.

Just one last question, and I feel it's important to ask because I think a lot of our audience would benefit from hearing you answer this question.

It's another question from my wife, Penny.

Yeah, Melissa's trying to avoid the but.

So Penny came on the show in 2023 and she talked about the mental load in our relationships.

And she kind of introduced, I felt like she was really introducing the concept to a lot of people here in Australia.

It ended up being the most shared episode in a podcast in Australia, which is not a huge surprise.