Esther Perel

that you will be busy and there won't be a relationship. Sooner or later, there won't be a relationship. It's not difficult. You can wait, you can wait for the kids to grow up if there are kids involved, things like that. But in the end, there isn't.

that you will be busy and there won't be a relationship. Sooner or later, there won't be a relationship. It's not difficult. You can wait, you can wait for the kids to grow up if there are kids involved, things like that. But in the end, there isn't.

Well, it's not just on the phone. It's on the phone means I am continuously saying something is more important than you. We come last. We're a cactus. We don't need to be watered. We can survive in a desert. It's called, there's a term I've been using for this that I borrow from something else. It's called ambiguous loss. Have you ever heard of this term?

Well, it's not just on the phone. It's on the phone means I am continuously saying something is more important than you. We come last. We're a cactus. We don't need to be watered. We can survive in a desert. It's called, there's a term I've been using for this that I borrow from something else. It's called ambiguous loss. Have you ever heard of this term?

Biggest loss is a term that was developed by a colleague, Pauline Boss, a wonderful psychologist, when she talked about what happens when you have a parent, for example, that has Alzheimer. They are physically present, but they are psychologically gone. They're emotionally absent. And you can't really mourn them because they're still physically there.

Biggest loss is a term that was developed by a colleague, Pauline Boss, a wonderful psychologist, when she talked about what happens when you have a parent, for example, that has Alzheimer. They are physically present, but they are psychologically gone. They're emotionally absent. And you can't really mourn them because they're still physically there.

But you're caught in this in-between, in this ambiguous loss. On the other side, you can have somebody who is deployed, hostage. Miscarriage, they are emotionally very present, but they are physically absent. In both cases, it's an ambiguous loss. You can't, are they still there or are they gone? Who knows? When we live with this founting,

But you're caught in this in-between, in this ambiguous loss. On the other side, you can have somebody who is deployed, hostage. Miscarriage, they are emotionally very present, but they are physically absent. In both cases, it's an ambiguous loss. You can't, are they still there or are they gone? Who knows? When we live with this founting,

When we are, because you've been at work, you've been at the computer, you come home, you think, I'm so happy to finally let go of the computer. You turn on the TV, you turn on the TV, and then you turn on the phone at the same time. You're watching here, you're watching there, and there's a person next to you. And most likely they often do the same thing in the end too.

When we are, because you've been at work, you've been at the computer, you come home, you think, I'm so happy to finally let go of the computer. You turn on the TV, you turn on the TV, and then you turn on the phone at the same time. You're watching here, you're watching there, and there's a person next to you. And most likely they often do the same thing in the end too.

And gradually, you know, there is less and less of a thread of conversation, of connection, of joy, of sex, of intimacy, all of what, you know, that becomes ambiguous loss. Somebody is there, but they're not really present. I'm, you know, is there a difference between me and the sofa? It's comfy. It's routine. You sit on me.

And gradually, you know, there is less and less of a thread of conversation, of connection, of joy, of sex, of intimacy, all of what, you know, that becomes ambiguous loss. Somebody is there, but they're not really present. I'm, you know, is there a difference between me and the sofa? It's comfy. It's routine. You sit on me.

But comfy and routine do not give us joy or meaning or relevance or connection. And that's what we still seem to want. So it means saying to people, you know, it's actually not very, very complicated. What did people do for centuries? They took walks. That's one of the few times you can't click. So take a walk. Don't sit.

But comfy and routine do not give us joy or meaning or relevance or connection. And that's what we still seem to want. So it means saying to people, you know, it's actually not very, very complicated. What did people do for centuries? They took walks. That's one of the few times you can't click. So take a walk. Don't sit.

Don't try to do, you know, take a walk around the block and just be in motion. Then you're parallel, you know, it's not face to face, it's side by side. And you can talk about the day. If you, instead of just saying, stop, stop, stop, you just said, you know, let's go for a walk. It's London, but still you can, you know, and you do half an hour walk. It will change.

Don't try to do, you know, take a walk around the block and just be in motion. Then you're parallel, you know, it's not face to face, it's side by side. And you can talk about the day. If you, instead of just saying, stop, stop, stop, you just said, you know, let's go for a walk. It's London, but still you can, you know, and you do half an hour walk. It will change.

You'll come back to me and you tell me what it will do. But it's amazing how these small interventions that are playful, creative, not digging, change the dynamic of the relationship. Because she is only pursuing you in part because of how much you are withdrawing. You change, she change. If you want to change the other, change yourself.

You'll come back to me and you tell me what it will do. But it's amazing how these small interventions that are playful, creative, not digging, change the dynamic of the relationship. Because she is only pursuing you in part because of how much you are withdrawing. You change, she change. If you want to change the other, change yourself.

Once you understood the figure eight and how we create the other, you understand that if you do something else, sooner or later, they do something else too. So if you want to change the other, change you. This is part of the question you asked me, right? What are some of the essentials understandings of working with relational systems? This is true at work, in companies.

Once you understood the figure eight and how we create the other, you understand that if you do something else, sooner or later, they do something else too. So if you want to change the other, change you. This is part of the question you asked me, right? What are some of the essentials understandings of working with relational systems? This is true at work, in companies.