Ezra Klein

And also, I mean, and I think this is one of my other concerns, maybe has left a more dangerous Iranian regime that has both learned lessons about what its deterrence capabilities actually are and has also learned lessons that negotiations cannot be trusted.

We entered into a deal with Iran under the Obama administration.

Trump ripped it up.

He then negotiated with Iran and bombed them twice during negotiations.

So you might end with an Iranian regime which has learned a lesson that you cannot negotiate with the United States.

You cannot trust the negotiations.

Even if you do have a partner you can work with, it could just be ripped up by the next administration.

You're only true safety here.

is your deterrence capability to impose tremendous pain on the global economy through the Strait of Hormuz, through attacking infrastructure throughout the Gulf, data infrastructure, energy infrastructure, and ultimately perhaps trying to get a nuclear weapon.

And so, I mean, a world in which we have somewhat degraded Iranian weapons capability in the near term, but left a regime with that set of lessons in charge for the long term, and with that set of battle-hardened learnings, I mean, that seems, again, not like a contribution to world security at the end of this.

I think that's a sobering place to end.

Always our final question.

What are three books you'd recommend to the audience?

Suzanne Maloney, thank you very much.

This episode of Ezra Klein Show is produced by Roland Hu.

Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker.

Our senior audio engineer is Jeff Gelb with additional mixing by Amin Sahota.

Our executive producer is Claire Gordon.

The show's production team also includes Annie Galvin, Marie Cassione, Marina King, Jack McCordick, Kristen Lin, Emmett Kelbeck, and Jan Kobel.

Original music by Carol Saburo and Pat McCusker.