Ezra Klein

Yeah. Do you want to say a bit about what that would permit? Yeah.

Yeah. Do you want to say a bit about what that would permit? Yeah.

I'm also worried he'll invoke the Insurrection Act. And I think, again, going back to people he's appointed, the message of appointing Hegsath, Patel, right? He put loyalists in charge of— And firing the JAG officers. Firing the JAG officers, firing generals who he thought were disloyal or trying to fire some of them at least.

I'm also worried he'll invoke the Insurrection Act. And I think, again, going back to people he's appointed, the message of appointing Hegsath, Patel, right? He put loyalists in charge of— And firing the JAG officers. Firing the JAG officers, firing generals who he thought were disloyal or trying to fire some of them at least.

He has tried to take control of the security agencies, and I don't think that's for no reason, right?

He has tried to take control of the security agencies, and I don't think that's for no reason, right?

Look, that's a point for me. The last thing I want to come off on in this show is a nihilist. The point for me of this whole conversation is to say that If it is not stopped now, it is going to get much worse. If people don't take where we are now, it feels so cliche to invoke the poem we are all taught. First, it came for the communists, and I said nothing because I was not a communist.

Look, that's a point for me. The last thing I want to come off on in this show is a nihilist. The point for me of this whole conversation is to say that If it is not stopped now, it is going to get much worse. If people don't take where we are now, it feels so cliche to invoke the poem we are all taught. First, it came for the communists, and I said nothing because I was not a communist.

And it came for the trade unionists, and I said nothing because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I said nothing for I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to say anything. It's not that there'd be no one left. It's that by then people decide it is too dangerous to say anything, right?

And it came for the trade unionists, and I said nothing because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I said nothing for I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to say anything. It's not that there'd be no one left. It's that by then people decide it is too dangerous to say anything, right?

That you climb up the ladder of power every time you are able to exercise power against a weaker set of enemies in society and nobody stops you, right? And that's why to me, the Abrego Garcia case is not a small thing.

That you climb up the ladder of power every time you are able to exercise power against a weaker set of enemies in society and nobody stops you, right? And that's why to me, the Abrego Garcia case is not a small thing.

If he can do this to some random Maryland father, three kids, nobody actually believes this guy's any threat to anybody, and then sit in the Oval Office with Bukele and say, I would like to do this to U.S. citizens too, and people just shrug their shoulders and move on. I mean, then what he has learned is he can do it.

If he can do this to some random Maryland father, three kids, nobody actually believes this guy's any threat to anybody, and then sit in the Oval Office with Bukele and say, I would like to do this to U.S. citizens too, and people just shrug their shoulders and move on. I mean, then what he has learned is he can do it.

Look, I talk to Democrats in Congress all the time, and the biggest problem they face is that they actually just don't have a lot of good options. I'm not sympathetic in every respect to the decisions they have made, but unless they want to use the debt ceiling to crash the economy— There isn't a huge number of points of leverage.

Look, I talk to Democrats in Congress all the time, and the biggest problem they face is that they actually just don't have a lot of good options. I'm not sympathetic in every respect to the decisions they have made, but unless they want to use the debt ceiling to crash the economy— There isn't a huge number of points of leverage.

They can hold things up in the Senate, but the fact of the matter is the Trump administration doesn't have a huge legislative agenda at the moment. And Democrats are not in the majority in the Senate, and they have very, very little power in the House. I think people want them to have power. They don't really have.

They can hold things up in the Senate, but the fact of the matter is the Trump administration doesn't have a huge legislative agenda at the moment. And Democrats are not in the majority in the Senate, and they have very, very little power in the House. I think people want them to have power. They don't really have.

But look, there's going to be another government shutdown question in less than a year. And depending on where we are, I think it's going to be much harder for Democrats, if this continues in the way it has been, to say on that one, well, we're just going to keep letting this ride. But that's where the rest of society is actually really important.

But look, there's going to be another government shutdown question in less than a year. And depending on where we are, I think it's going to be much harder for Democrats, if this continues in the way it has been, to say on that one, well, we're just going to keep letting this ride. But that's where the rest of society is actually really important.