Ezra Klein

This guy's had the same opinions on everything for decades and decades now. What we did with Japan is we brought in their car companies here and we learned from them. What China did with us was they brought in our manufacturers and they learned from them.

This guy's had the same opinions on everything for decades and decades now. What we did with Japan is we brought in their car companies here and we learned from them. What China did with us was they brought in our manufacturers and they learned from them.

And what you are saying is something that if you take seriously how good China has gotten at manufacturing, then what you would try to do is begin bringing in its factories here as the condition of access to our market to learn from them.

And what you are saying is something that if you take seriously how good China has gotten at manufacturing, then what you would try to do is begin bringing in its factories here as the condition of access to our market to learn from them.

They don't allow our major technology firms there. And with the exception of TikTok, really, we don't allow theirs here. We are the governing, I always say with AI policy, there are three goals. Make it safe, make it fast, and make it ours. And make it ours is always the goal that wins. In every conversation, in the Biden administration, in the Trump administration, make it ours.

They don't allow our major technology firms there. And with the exception of TikTok, really, we don't allow theirs here. We are the governing, I always say with AI policy, there are three goals. Make it safe, make it fast, and make it ours. And make it ours is always the goal that wins. In every conversation, in the Biden administration, in the Trump administration, make it ours.

Which means, by the way, we are racing much quicker than we should be to make it safe. Because make it fast then becomes the overriding objective. And we're already there. And you will like sever these two AIs off from each other, these two AI branches off from each other. You've already to a large degree severed the two internets off from each other.

Which means, by the way, we are racing much quicker than we should be to make it safe. Because make it fast then becomes the overriding objective. And we're already there. And you will like sever these two AIs off from each other, these two AI branches off from each other. You've already to a large degree severed the two internets off from each other.

You are going to have this world where you do bifurcate. And there's something interesting about that too, that I've been, we are probably by most accounts a little bit ahead of them on AI, but not by much at this point.

You are going to have this world where you do bifurcate. And there's something interesting about that too, that I've been, we are probably by most accounts a little bit ahead of them on AI, but not by much at this point.

But they have something increasingly that we don't, which is a digitized structure for their economy and for the integration of their economy with manufacturing and other things, but particularly payments, communications, et cetera, that you could embed AI in very, very rapidly.

But they have something increasingly that we don't, which is a digitized structure for their economy and for the integration of their economy with manufacturing and other things, but particularly payments, communications, et cetera, that you could embed AI in very, very rapidly.

So when Elon Musk talks about making the app formerly known as Twitter, the everything app, what he wants it to be is what China already has, right? which is these apps that do communications and payments and all these different things. And then if you embedded AI into them, which they're doing, you have much more surface area of the economy that you can optimize very, very, very fast.

So when Elon Musk talks about making the app formerly known as Twitter, the everything app, what he wants it to be is what China already has, right? which is these apps that do communications and payments and all these different things. And then if you embedded AI into them, which they're doing, you have much more surface area of the economy that you can optimize very, very, very fast.

I don't know if that's true, though. I mean, look, you're much more of a student of international relations and history than I am. But countries can rise and fall separately. Superpowers decline and others rise. You know, Japan was going to be the next great power. Now it's an aging society that is in much more trouble.

I don't know if that's true, though. I mean, look, you're much more of a student of international relations and history than I am. But countries can rise and fall separately. Superpowers decline and others rise. You know, Japan was going to be the next great power. Now it's an aging society that is in much more trouble.

One of the ways of thinking about this that has been on my mind watching the Trump administration rise light the confidence the rest of the world has had in America on fire and call it greatness, is this idea that China's strength is manufacturing and America's strength, which we deride, is financial. One of the lessons of all history is he who controls the financing controls the world.

One of the ways of thinking about this that has been on my mind watching the Trump administration rise light the confidence the rest of the world has had in America on fire and call it greatness, is this idea that China's strength is manufacturing and America's strength, which we deride, is financial. One of the lessons of all history is he who controls the financing controls the world.

And what the Trump administration, I think, thinks it's doing is is taking back manufacturing from China. I don't think it's going to do it. But what they are definitely going to do, I think, is make it possible for China to take financial share from us. Because people are not going to trust us anymore.

And what the Trump administration, I think, thinks it's doing is is taking back manufacturing from China. I don't think it's going to do it. But what they are definitely going to do, I think, is make it possible for China to take financial share from us. Because people are not going to trust us anymore.