Ezra Klein

I think it is really telling that you are so much more loath to defend what we are seeing than to attack what has been. If you want to, it's fine. Like, I guess you could have, it would be interesting to have you and Larry go. To me, they're the same thing. It should have you and Larry go 12 rounds on the Clinton era.

I think it is really telling that you are so much more loath to defend what we are seeing than to attack what has been. If you want to, it's fine. Like, I guess you could have, it would be interesting to have you and Larry go. To me, they're the same thing. It should have you and Larry go 12 rounds on the Clinton era.

But, you know, when I say to you, listen, there is not a stable set of objectives that fit the policy here. Can I answer that? You say that's a process? I just would like somebody to explain. Defend the thing they keep actually doing.

But, you know, when I say to you, listen, there is not a stable set of objectives that fit the policy here. Can I answer that? You say that's a process? I just would like somebody to explain. Defend the thing they keep actually doing.

That was the result of PNTR. The thing we have to decide really right now as a country is if the thing that you all are trying to replace this with is better, right? If it will work. And so I want to go back to what you said a minute ago, David, when you're like, welcome to political coalitions. Larry has been in politics a long time. He was treasury secretary.

That was the result of PNTR. The thing we have to decide really right now as a country is if the thing that you all are trying to replace this with is better, right? If it will work. And so I want to go back to what you said a minute ago, David, when you're like, welcome to political coalitions. Larry has been in politics a long time. He was treasury secretary.

I've covered politics for a long time. I'm familiar with political coalitions. In fact, a lot of my book is currently about the problems in the way the democratic coalition with too many objectives all at once is Yeah. Got it. Yeah.

I've covered politics for a long time. I'm familiar with political coalitions. In fact, a lot of my book is currently about the problems in the way the democratic coalition with too many objectives all at once is Yeah. Got it. Yeah.

If the idea is that there are all these different players here who have all these different policy objectives that would connect to all these different policies and everybody's getting a little bit of them and Trump is kind of flipping back and forth through different versions of them, you could end up, despite, yes, whatever mistakes were made in the free trade consensus, which I do agree that we had, you could end up with a bad and next, not even consensus, just a bad next policy.

If the idea is that there are all these different players here who have all these different policy objectives that would connect to all these different policies and everybody's getting a little bit of them and Trump is kind of flipping back and forth through different versions of them, you could end up, despite, yes, whatever mistakes were made in the free trade consensus, which I do agree that we had, you could end up with a bad and next, not even consensus, just a bad next policy.

An unclear coalition that is fighting with itself and is making policy without a strong process can create not like nitpicky procedural problems, but actual damage and disasters.

An unclear coalition that is fighting with itself and is making policy without a strong process can create not like nitpicky procedural problems, but actual damage and disasters.

Here's my concern with this theory. I want to leave out, I'll leave the sort of question of what the real economy looked like to Larry. This world, In which what is happening is a business leader who represents a country is calling you and saying, OK, what do we need to do to deal? Right. They're coming to Donald Trump and they are going to come to Donald Trump.

Here's my concern with this theory. I want to leave out, I'll leave the sort of question of what the real economy looked like to Larry. This world, In which what is happening is a business leader who represents a country is calling you and saying, OK, what do we need to do to deal? Right. They're coming to Donald Trump and they are going to come to Donald Trump.

As Larry said earlier, there's no doubt that the U.S. economic leverage is enormous. And virtually every country faced with our might is going to try to cut a deal with us. But then there's a call they're not making to you that they're making to someone else, which is. We have. allowed, or we have approached the U.S. as a functionally benign partner for a very long time.

As Larry said earlier, there's no doubt that the U.S. economic leverage is enormous. And virtually every country faced with our might is going to try to cut a deal with us. But then there's a call they're not making to you that they're making to someone else, which is. We have. allowed, or we have approached the U.S. as a functionally benign partner for a very long time.

And now they're becoming a dangerous partner. They are very, very strong, and they will use that strength to crush countries smaller than them when it suits the whims of a personalist regime run by a person who his feelings, even about people that the U.S. or countries the U.S. traditionally considered allies, like Canada or much of Europe,

And now they're becoming a dangerous partner. They are very, very strong, and they will use that strength to crush countries smaller than them when it suits the whims of a personalist regime run by a person who his feelings, even about people that the U.S. or countries the U.S. traditionally considered allies, like Canada or much of Europe,

And so, yes, on the one hand, for the next year or two, we want to avoid getting a big tariff slapped on us. And so we got to figure out what is it that if we offer it to Donald Trump, he will say to himself, that was enough money. of a give that, you know, I can move on to someone else. I can make them the focus of my ire.

And so, yes, on the one hand, for the next year or two, we want to avoid getting a big tariff slapped on us. And so we got to figure out what is it that if we offer it to Donald Trump, he will say to himself, that was enough money. of a give that, you know, I can move on to someone else. I can make them the focus of my ire.