Ezra Klein

here.

here.

Getting dumb things done is not good change. Right. I actually don't understand how this point is so hard to grok. If you get a lot of change and the change is bad, I am going to think that is bad, not good. I would hope that is true for all of you, that if Kamala Harris or some other Democrat came in and began wrecking things, that you wouldn't say, well, we needed a bunch of change.

Getting dumb things done is not good change. Right. I actually don't understand how this point is so hard to grok. If you get a lot of change and the change is bad, I am going to think that is bad, not good. I would hope that is true for all of you, that if Kamala Harris or some other Democrat came in and began wrecking things, that you wouldn't say, well, we needed a bunch of change.

Like, let's break everything in sight. I want to see things done well. There should be good permitting reform. Absolutely. Let me give you an example of the kind of thing that I am looking for. We talked about CHIPS a bunch on this show. I like the CHIPS Act.

Like, let's break everything in sight. I want to see things done well. There should be good permitting reform. Absolutely. Let me give you an example of the kind of thing that I am looking for. We talked about CHIPS a bunch on this show. I like the CHIPS Act.

I did a big piece that coined the term everything bagel liberalism about the way in which the ideas inside that act when they began building out the grant program layered on too many standards and programs and so on. But one thing they then did was

I did a big piece that coined the term everything bagel liberalism about the way in which the ideas inside that act when they began building out the grant program layered on too many standards and programs and so on. But one thing they then did was

was they passed a bill or Biden signed a bill by Ted Cruz and Mark Kelly taking chips out of the normal environmental review because they said, look, if this is a matter of national security and we're trying to build the semiconductor fab so quickly, we cannot have this layered in years of environmental review, which now take on average three and a half to four and a half years.

was they passed a bill or Biden signed a bill by Ted Cruz and Mark Kelly taking chips out of the normal environmental review because they said, look, if this is a matter of national security and we're trying to build the semiconductor fab so quickly, we cannot have this layered in years of environmental review, which now take on average three and a half to four and a half years.

So because I care a lot about clean energy, one of my arguments is that we should have a speed run for clean energy. It should not go through the normal levels of review. What is happening in California high-speed rail, where it had 12 years of environmental review, was not, in my view, a good idea.

So because I care a lot about clean energy, one of my arguments is that we should have a speed run for clean energy. It should not go through the normal levels of review. What is happening in California high-speed rail, where it had 12 years of environmental review, was not, in my view, a good idea.

At the same time, that doesn't force me to say, well, I think we should build a bunch of coal plants without environmental review because I can make... distinctions between things I want to see happen in the world and things I don't. I think you're totally right with that.

At the same time, that doesn't force me to say, well, I think we should build a bunch of coal plants without environmental review because I can make... distinctions between things I want to see happen in the world and things I don't. I think you're totally right with that.

So here's what I'll say on the two things. And how do you fix it? I have not myself looked deeply into the Stacey Abrams story, but I'm very skeptical of the accounts I keep hearing about it. I suspect that if she had made $2 billion in 30 days, she wouldn't be now hosting a podcast on Crooked Media. She'd be on an island somewhere. So I can't comment on that piece of it. It's called Crooked Media?

So here's what I'll say on the two things. And how do you fix it? I have not myself looked deeply into the Stacey Abrams story, but I'm very skeptical of the accounts I keep hearing about it. I suspect that if she had made $2 billion in 30 days, she wouldn't be now hosting a podcast on Crooked Media. She'd be on an island somewhere. So I can't comment on that piece of it. It's called Crooked Media?

Yeah, the positive American thing. It's a joke from Donald Trump, actually. It's very out. I don't know. The broader thing here, though, right, which is you're getting at – frankly, what I worry about is that what you had in that DOE process was fairly quick for the government. One of the things that I am targeting in the book is a way that even when members of –

Yeah, the positive American thing. It's a joke from Donald Trump, actually. It's very out. I don't know. The broader thing here, though, right, which is you're getting at – frankly, what I worry about is that what you had in that DOE process was fairly quick for the government. One of the things that I am targeting in the book is a way that even when members of –

the administration, when governors want things to happen, they are not willing to upend the process to pass the new bills, to reconstruct the architecture of the federal or the state government to get it to happen. Jerry Brown and Gavin Newsom wanted high-speed rail to happen.

the administration, when governors want things to happen, they are not willing to upend the process to pass the new bills, to reconstruct the architecture of the federal or the state government to get it to happen. Jerry Brown and Gavin Newsom wanted high-speed rail to happen.