Ezra Klein

And so what would matter for that?

And so what would matter for that?

And then also, final question, what are three books you'd recommend to the audience?

And then also, final question, what are three books you'd recommend to the audience?

But isn't it the case, I mean, you look at the biggest companies in the world that Europe has far fewer than they used to. They don't have many frontier technology companies anymore.

But isn't it the case, I mean, you look at the biggest companies in the world that Europe has far fewer than they used to. They don't have many frontier technology companies anymore.

productivity has raced forward in America. So it's specifically the technology sector.

productivity has raced forward in America. So it's specifically the technology sector.

Peter Orszag, thank you very much.

Peter Orszag, thank you very much.

This episode of The Ezra Klein Show is produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker, and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones with Amin Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show's production team also includes Marie Cassione, Roland Hu, Elias Iskwith, Marina King, Jan Kobel, and Kristen Lin.

This episode of The Ezra Klein Show is produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker, and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones with Amin Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show's production team also includes Marie Cassione, Roland Hu, Elias Iskwith, Marina King, Jan Kobel, and Kristen Lin.

We've original music by Pat McCusker, audience strategy by Christina Samielewski, and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Andy Rostrosser, and special thanks to Matt Klein.

We've original music by Pat McCusker, audience strategy by Christina Samielewski, and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Andy Rostrosser, and special thanks to Matt Klein.

From New York Times Opinion, this is The Ezra Klein Show. So scale of one to 10, how liberated are you feeling? Because we just had Donald Trump's big day of liberation, where he announced a huge package of tariffs, larger by far than markets were expecting, which led markets to lose a lot of value in the hours right after. They were also more confusing than people were expecting.

From New York Times Opinion, this is The Ezra Klein Show. So scale of one to 10, how liberated are you feeling? Because we just had Donald Trump's big day of liberation, where he announced a huge package of tariffs, larger by far than markets were expecting, which led markets to lose a lot of value in the hours right after. They were also more confusing than people were expecting.

He had suggested in the campaign a flat tariff of 10 to 20% on all important goods, maybe something bigger on China. But this was very different, different numbers for basically every country. Then there was a column listing the tariffs that they had on us, and that column was simply wrong. So what is going on here? Why is Donald Trump absorbing this much economic pain?

He had suggested in the campaign a flat tariff of 10 to 20% on all important goods, maybe something bigger on China. But this was very different, different numbers for basically every country. Then there was a column listing the tariffs that they had on us, and that column was simply wrong. So what is going on here? Why is Donald Trump absorbing this much economic pain?

Why is he risking domestic recession, a global recession, for this package of policies that almost every economist would tell you does not really make sense? I wanted to talk to my former colleague, Paul Krugman, about this. Paul is a Nobel Prize-winning economist with a focus in trade. He was a columnist here at the New York Times for 25 years, and he's been writing an excellent sub-stack called

Why is he risking domestic recession, a global recession, for this package of policies that almost every economist would tell you does not really make sense? I wanted to talk to my former colleague, Paul Krugman, about this. Paul is a Nobel Prize-winning economist with a focus in trade. He was a columnist here at the New York Times for 25 years, and he's been writing an excellent sub-stack called