Ezra Klein

We have pre-overweight, pre-obese kind of things.

And I think that there is an interesting dimension as people start looking for chemical answers to wellness.

Because the truth is, for a lot of people, get enough sleep and go to the gym regularly and eat whole foods is hard.

If you could give yourself a shot or take a pill, people want it.

And so how do you think about the broader shift, which is not new, but it's happening with more force right now, towards medicine as not a way of treating illness, but as a way of optimizing wellness?

Do you see it as something new?

Is that something old?

Right, I'm agreeing with that.

I don't think there's anything that new about wanting to use medicine to be more well as opposed to heal from illness.

And we've been doing that forever.

And we've had health and wellness influencers forever.

But I think if you look around the mediascape at this exact moment and you think about how big Rogan and Huberman and Atiyah and then you have like Brian Johnson is one of the breakout media figures of the era, this sort of former entrepreneur who's trying to never die and is like the, you know, has like ended up in this incredibly, incredibly

intense regimen of optimization.

I'm very skeptical.

This is ultimately going to be good for him, but it's his life, I guess.

Clavicular, this look-maxer streamer who hits his head with a hammer and is on these crazy stacks and OD'd the other day on a live stream.

He's getting billions of views on his clips.

And I think there's something about the way, how dominant this has become in the media sphere.

And it doesn't have checks it used to have on it.

I mean, you were talking, I remember the coverage you would do at Vox of Dr. Oz.