Ezra Klein

Where what they do is they go in and, you know, somebody is watching them and helping them read books and think through math. And there's long periods and they have a certain amount of exploratory capacity in that, right? You can choose between different books. But the idea that maybe one space in their life...

Where what they do is they go in and, you know, somebody is watching them and helping them read books and think through math. And there's long periods and they have a certain amount of exploratory capacity in that, right? You can choose between different books. But the idea that maybe one space in their life...

would just be a place that is trying to encourage in them that capacity for meaning-making, for deep attention, for deep contemplation. It seems to me to be more valuable than it seems to be to other people to just have a teacher sit there and watch kids read for an hour and a half at a time. And then there's a discussion. Then to do a lot of what we do in school.

would just be a place that is trying to encourage in them that capacity for meaning-making, for deep attention, for deep contemplation. It seems to me to be more valuable than it seems to be to other people to just have a teacher sit there and watch kids read for an hour and a half at a time. And then there's a discussion. Then to do a lot of what we do in school.

This idea of schools is explicitly counterintuitive. to the trends of the moment because they need to develop things that the moment will not naturally develop. How do you think about that?

This idea of schools is explicitly counterintuitive. to the trends of the moment because they need to develop things that the moment will not naturally develop. How do you think about that?

I hope you're right. I've been, in general, very skeptical of how much literacy will do.

I hope you're right. I've been, in general, very skeptical of how much literacy will do.

I'm as phone literate as I think you can almost be. I've been writing about this for years. I'm functionally extremist on this issue. And still, the only way for me to modulate my own use to the point I would like to is to use a device— That hobbles my phone, the brick, every time I touch it to the RFID chip.

I'm as phone literate as I think you can almost be. I've been writing about this for years. I'm functionally extremist on this issue. And still, the only way for me to modulate my own use to the point I would like to is to use a device— That hobbles my phone, the brick, every time I touch it to the RFID chip.

And if I don't do that, all the literacy in the world, I've known John Haidt for many, many years. He's been on this show. I've read The Anxious Generation. It doesn't do me that much good because that's just not how the brain works. Any more than knowing that I shouldn't eat so many Oreos keeps me from eating them if they're on the table in front of me.

And if I don't do that, all the literacy in the world, I've known John Haidt for many, many years. He's been on this show. I've read The Anxious Generation. It doesn't do me that much good because that's just not how the brain works. Any more than knowing that I shouldn't eat so many Oreos keeps me from eating them if they're on the table in front of me.

I was just thinking about that. I think they are. But I also wouldn't overstate how well they even understand what it is they are doing. They don't fully understand the systems they're making now. Relentlessly, the kids are more capable and ingenious. than the eight or 40 or 100 developers on any given product.

I was just thinking about that. I think they are. But I also wouldn't overstate how well they even understand what it is they are doing. They don't fully understand the systems they're making now. Relentlessly, the kids are more capable and ingenious. than the eight or 40 or 100 developers on any given product.

When you're building something that has a small number of hundreds of people building it, and then it's used by 40,000 kids, I think our experience is that they are clever in ways typically that you are not. I do think that over time we can create things that are curbed. It's just that I'm not sure we even know exactly what we are targeting.

When you're building something that has a small number of hundreds of people building it, and then it's used by 40,000 kids, I think our experience is that they are clever in ways typically that you are not. I do think that over time we can create things that are curbed. It's just that I'm not sure we even know exactly what we are targeting.

So then I want to go back to where we began, which is, you know, you've got young kids now. They're going to be going into school in the age of Gen AI. How should you think about their schooling? So we can't really predict the shape of society in 15 or 20 years. I don't think that's a question we could Answer on the show. If we could, we should probably be investing, not podcasting.

So then I want to go back to where we began, which is, you know, you've got young kids now. They're going to be going into school in the age of Gen AI. How should you think about their schooling? So we can't really predict the shape of society in 15 or 20 years. I don't think that's a question we could Answer on the show. If we could, we should probably be investing, not podcasting.

But what we have in education now is constant markers. that are supposed to tell us as parents how well our kids' education is going. And that's basically grades and maybe to some degree counselor reports. And the idea is if they get good grades and they seem happy and well-adjusted, then at the end of that process, they'll go to a good college or go to a trade school and get a good job.

But what we have in education now is constant markers. that are supposed to tell us as parents how well our kids' education is going. And that's basically grades and maybe to some degree counselor reports. And the idea is if they get good grades and they seem happy and well-adjusted, then at the end of that process, they'll go to a good college or go to a trade school and get a good job.