Ezra Klein

He could have become or really asserted America as a global hegemon in the old style.

but instead invests in things like the UN.

And that is not to wipe away all the ways in which we did use power, but out of him come the state as we know it and the global order as we know it.

And those are the two things that not just Trump, but Trumpism, Project 2025, the foreign policy thinking of the people around him, have really come to target.

The administrative state to them is a... The deep state.

The deep state, a tool of weaponized liberal control.

The global order is a way that America is, instead of being the power that acts upon the world, is being restrained from using that power and taken advantage of.

And so there's been an extended now concerted effort

to do something to both of those orders, right?

To do something to the state, to do something to the global order.

So how would you describe the aim of Trump's political revolution?

If FDR wanted to construct

Does Trump just want to destruct?

Does he want to own?

Does he want to transact?

What is he trying to achieve?

Well, a lot of people, I think, were very happy to have it over.

So again, that might be right, but it was when that's when Biden's approval rating dropped under 50 and never recovered.

I always found that interesting because everybody says people hated the war, but they didn't like the they did not like what it looked like.

They didn't like the