Ezra Klein

Tell me the story. In terms of things that have affected the dollar and what we've seen in the dollar's value and what we've seen in other countries responding, what did they do that was consequential? How would you tell the story as an economic historian trying to track what has been important in this period?

Tell me the story. In terms of things that have affected the dollar and what we've seen in the dollar's value and what we've seen in other countries responding, what did they do that was consequential? How would you tell the story as an economic historian trying to track what has been important in this period?

You might not like NAFTA, but Bernie Sanders has never proposed a tariff system like this. Yeah, but what was he... Okay, the whole... Trump has had his views on trade since Japan in the 80s. He didn't need Bernie Sanders to teach him that. If you go back to what he was saying about Japan, it's the same thing he's saying now.

You might not like NAFTA, but Bernie Sanders has never proposed a tariff system like this. Yeah, but what was he... Okay, the whole... Trump has had his views on trade since Japan in the 80s. He didn't need Bernie Sanders to teach him that. If you go back to what he was saying about Japan, it's the same thing he's saying now.

Something you're saying that I just want to validate through my own reporting is I've talked to a bunch of people who are significant market participants, is maybe the way I'll put it. And they are definitely working off of the idea that in a year, the tariffs are going to be much lower than they are today. Not a little bit lower. More stable. Not the same.

Something you're saying that I just want to validate through my own reporting is I've talked to a bunch of people who are significant market participants, is maybe the way I'll put it. And they are definitely working off of the idea that in a year, the tariffs are going to be much lower than they are today. Not a little bit lower. More stable. Not the same.

So what is this done specifically to the dollar? People know what is going on in the stock market. It has been very shaky. You know, people can watch it for themselves. What has been the story if I'm following the dollar's value?

So what is this done specifically to the dollar? People know what is going on in the stock market. It has been very shaky. You know, people can watch it for themselves. What has been the story if I'm following the dollar's value?

But most people don't track just what is happening literally to the dollar's value, where people are putting their money in other currencies. You do. What has happened to the dollar's value? What has happened with other currencies? I mean, what are the signs that the world's relationship to the dollar is changing?

But most people don't track just what is happening literally to the dollar's value, where people are putting their money in other currencies. You do. What has happened to the dollar's value? What has happened with other currencies? I mean, what are the signs that the world's relationship to the dollar is changing?

Let's say in 2029, right, you have, pick your candidate, right? It's President Pete Buttigieg, it's President Wes Moore, it's President Gretchen Whitmer. You don't think it all just reverts? No, because...

Let's say in 2029, right, you have, pick your candidate, right? It's President Pete Buttigieg, it's President Wes Moore, it's President Gretchen Whitmer. You don't think it all just reverts? No, because...

You say it's hard to understand what the plan is, but let me offer this as not even a plan, but a frame. Somebody said to me recently that their model of Trump is that he loves to borrow from the future. He always has in his businesses and everything. And that if it works out for him, in the good scenario for Donald Trump, what you get are some short-term wins.

You say it's hard to understand what the plan is, but let me offer this as not even a plan, but a frame. Somebody said to me recently that their model of Trump is that he loves to borrow from the future. He always has in his businesses and everything. And that if it works out for him, in the good scenario for Donald Trump, what you get are some short-term wins.

What you get is people without a good option have to give you something so you bring the tariff down, have to give you something so they get out of your crosshairs. But in the long term, what you've done is spend down advantages we had, privileges we had, low borrowing costs we would have had. And maybe the bill comes due for some future precedent. Maybe it doesn't, by the way.

What you get is people without a good option have to give you something so you bring the tariff down, have to give you something so they get out of your crosshairs. But in the long term, what you've done is spend down advantages we had, privileges we had, low borrowing costs we would have had. And maybe the bill comes due for some future precedent. Maybe it doesn't, by the way.

He's making these bills come due pretty fast. But it's kind of like pulling it from the future into the present. Benefits that would have been spread out over a long time. We'll get them all now and then deal with the crisis sooner.

He's making these bills come due pretty fast. But it's kind of like pulling it from the future into the present. Benefits that would have been spread out over a long time. We'll get them all now and then deal with the crisis sooner.

Your book tracks this. There is this way, if you look at our major competitors during this period, you get a somewhat different view of the U.S. than you get from the domestic political debate. So you track the rise of Japan. I was not really around for Japan as our big competitor. I was very young for that.

Your book tracks this. There is this way, if you look at our major competitors during this period, you get a somewhat different view of the U.S. than you get from the domestic political debate. So you track the rise of Japan. I was not really around for Japan as our big competitor. I was very young for that.