‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose of Education’
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Are kids today reading less for enjoyment?
Here's a statistic I've been thinking about recently. So in 1976, if you ask high school seniors, have they read some books in the last year for fun? Around 40% of them had read at least six books for fun in the last year. Only about 11% hadn't read a single book for fun. Today, those numbers are basically reversed. About 40% haven't read a single book for fun. If you are looking for this, you see it everywhere right now. There are all these headlines about how kids are not reading the way they once did. There are all these stories quoting professors, even at Ivy League universities, about the way in which when they try to assign the reading that they've been assigning their entire careers, their students, they just can't do it anymore.
And so the professors are adjusting. They're changing the books, making them shorter, making them simpler, making the reading just less burdensome. we're losing something. We can see it on test scores that over the last decade, we just see the number of kids reading at grade level slipping. And then of course the pandemic accelerated that. So if you were simply asking, how are the kids doing on some of these intellectual faculties that we once thought were the core of what education was trying to promote, they're not doing well. And then as if we summoned it, as if we wrote it into the script.
How is generative AI challenging traditional education?
Here comes this technology, generative AI, that can do it for them, that'll read the book and summarize it for you, that'll write the essay for you, that'll do the math problem, even shown its work, for you. We know gen AI is being used at mass scale by students to cheat. But its challenge is more fundamental to that. Of course, using it that way, we call it cheating. But to them, why wouldn't you? If you have this technology, then not only can, but will be. doing so much of this for you, for us, for the economy. Why are we doing any of this at all? Why are we reading these books ourselves when they can just be summarized for us? Why are we doing this math ourselves when a computer can just do it for us?
Why am I writing this essay myself when I can get a first draft in a couple minutes from Claude or from chat GPT? I have a three and a six-year-old, and one of the ways that my uncertainty about our AI-inflected future manifests is this deep uncertainty about how they should be educated. What are they going to need to know? I don't know what the economy, what society is going to want from them in 16 or 20 years. And if I don't know what it's going to want from them, what it's going to reward in them, how do I know how they should be educated? How do I know if the education I am creating for them is doing a good job? How do I know if I'm failing them? How do you prepare for the unpredictable?
My guest today is Rebecca Winthrop, the director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution. Her latest book, co-authored with Jenny Anderson, is The Disengaged Teen, helping kids learn better, feel better, and live better. As always, my email is reclineshow at nytimes.com. Rebecca Winthrop, welcome to the show.
What should education aim to achieve in the age of AI?
Lovely to be here, Ezra.
So I have a three and a six-year-old. I feel like I cannot predict with AI what it is society will want or reward from them in 15, 16 years, which makes this question in the interim, how should they be educated? What should they be educated towards? feel really uncertain to me. My confidence that the schools are set up now for the world they are going to graduate into is very, very low. So you study education. You've been thinking a lot about education and AI. What advice would you give me?
So approximately a third of kids are deeply engaged. So two thirds of the kids are not. We need to have learning experiences that motivate kids to dig in and engage and be excited to learn. So when friends or relatives ask me the same question, I usually say, look, we have to think about three parts to the answer. Why do you want your kids to be educated? What is the purpose of education?
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
Are kids today reading less for enjoyment?
0:31–2:03
2
How is generative AI challenging traditional education?
2:03–4:13
3
What should education aim to achieve in the age of AI?
4:13–10:33
4
What role does student engagement play in learning?
10:33–17:04
5
How can AI support personalized learning in schools?
17:04–24:30
6
What are the potential changes to the role of teachers in the AI era?
24:30–1:08:16