Ezra Klein

Look, here's the question I would ask if I was complicating the story, because of course I agree that there has been a huge multi-billion dollar, now multi-decade effort by fossil fuel industry to destroy any action or any real action on climate change, right? That's just fact.

Look, here's the question I would ask if I was complicating the story, because of course I agree that there has been a huge multi-billion dollar, now multi-decade effort by fossil fuel industry to destroy any action or any real action on climate change, right? That's just fact.

I think where your story begins to demand complication is why is it easier to to build green energy in Texas than California. So I've gone and run these numbers, working with the people who are modeling the Inflation Reduction Act's build-out.

I think where your story begins to demand complication is why is it easier to to build green energy in Texas than California. So I've gone and run these numbers, working with the people who are modeling the Inflation Reduction Act's build-out.

If you look at where the IRA's money is going, if you are looking at deployment of green energy infrastructure or advanced manufacturing for green energy, that money is going majority to red states. They are building more of it.

If you look at where the IRA's money is going, if you are looking at deployment of green energy infrastructure or advanced manufacturing for green energy, that money is going majority to red states. They are building more of it.

If you look at money, the subsidies to buy things, to buy the end products, right, to buy an electric vehicle, that goes more to blue states because we buy more, maybe not any more Teslas, but at one time, Teslas in California and New York. And so there's no doubt that the politics are as you describe them nationally.

If you look at money, the subsidies to buy things, to buy the end products, right, to buy an electric vehicle, that goes more to blue states because we buy more, maybe not any more Teslas, but at one time, Teslas in California and New York. And so there's no doubt that the politics are as you describe them nationally.

And there's also no doubt that what you would assume from that politics is a much more rapid build-out of green energy infrastructure in blue states than red. And that is not what we see. I say this in the introduction of the book. This book is not aimed at the right because they don't share my goal on decarbonization. But then trying to understand...

And there's also no doubt that what you would assume from that politics is a much more rapid build-out of green energy infrastructure in blue states than red. And that is not what we see. I say this in the introduction of the book. This book is not aimed at the right because they don't share my goal on decarbonization. But then trying to understand...

Why Texas and Georgia have been such incredible success stories from the perspective of the IRA and a bunch of the states that are much more aligned with its politics have been much more difficult. That then requires some untangling. And Shrikant, you focus very much on this. I'm curious how you think about that.

Why Texas and Georgia have been such incredible success stories from the perspective of the IRA and a bunch of the states that are much more aligned with its politics have been much more difficult. That then requires some untangling. And Shrikant, you focus very much on this. I'm curious how you think about that.

Let me ask about money in politics. I think this is an important question. I would support functionally the strongest money in politics regulations and laws anybody could imagine. I would repeal Buckley v. Vallejo. I don't think money is speech in politics. I think we've been on the wrong path on this for 30, 40 years. I completely believe that it's enervating.

Let me ask about money in politics. I think this is an important question. I would support functionally the strongest money in politics regulations and laws anybody could imagine. I would repeal Buckley v. Vallejo. I don't think money is speech in politics. I think we've been on the wrong path on this for 30, 40 years. I completely believe that it's enervating.

I believe it leads to levels of cynicism and distrust that even if you take out every other bad thing it's doing is complete toxicity in the veins of the body politic. Yeah, so I agree with all this. I also think when I look at individual issues, when we say money in politics, when we say corporate power, when we say concentrated power, we make a fractious plural into a singular.

I believe it leads to levels of cynicism and distrust that even if you take out every other bad thing it's doing is complete toxicity in the veins of the body politic. Yeah, so I agree with all this. I also think when I look at individual issues, when we say money in politics, when we say corporate power, when we say concentrated power, we make a fractious plural into a singular.

Money in politics often lines up on many different sides of an issue. So I was having a conversation recently with very big money, not a group you would love me talking to, Zephyr, that had been trying to finance now for some decades major – well, not major in terms of the buildup, but major in terms of the significance – pipelines that would bring clean energy from one place to another.

Money in politics often lines up on many different sides of an issue. So I was having a conversation recently with very big money, not a group you would love me talking to, Zephyr, that had been trying to finance now for some decades major – well, not major in terms of the buildup, but major in terms of the significance – pipelines that would bring clean energy from one place to another.

I'm not aligned with them on everything, but I'm aligned with them on building these pipelines because we got to get this power from the place where we are generating it as clean power to where we can power homes in New York City. I want it to happen. And it has been decades. And that's a very common story on transmission lines. On transmission lines, these are built by private companies.

I'm not aligned with them on everything, but I'm aligned with them on building these pipelines because we got to get this power from the place where we are generating it as clean power to where we can power homes in New York City. I want it to happen. And it has been decades. And that's a very common story on transmission lines. On transmission lines, these are built by private companies.