Ezra Klein

I think something that you have correctly criticized the Democratic Party for is a sort of politics of dignity and indignity where things that you value are not well valued by the party. But I think by, you know, cultural elites more broadly, when you talk about the physics major, you're to show how to hold a wrench. There is a valuing of office work and a devaluing of shop work.

I think something that you have correctly criticized the Democratic Party for is a sort of politics of dignity and indignity where things that you value are not well valued by the party. But I think by, you know, cultural elites more broadly, when you talk about the physics major, you're to show how to hold a wrench. There is a valuing of office work and a devaluing of shop work.

One thing I hear you saying is that in some ways we should reverse the moral hierarchy. That it's actually bad to have this sort of trash service that alienates you from your trash, right? It's kind of, it's okay for people to live in cities, but you gotta understand that we've probably gotten off track in a pretty profound way in modernity.

One thing I hear you saying is that in some ways we should reverse the moral hierarchy. That it's actually bad to have this sort of trash service that alienates you from your trash, right? It's kind of, it's okay for people to live in cities, but you gotta understand that we've probably gotten off track in a pretty profound way in modernity.

There are a lot of people in politics who I hear like their critique is very surface level. We should like change the dials on the tax code a little bit. When I listen to you, I hear something much more fundamental, a sense that we've gone off course in terms of what and who we value.

There are a lot of people in politics who I hear like their critique is very surface level. We should like change the dials on the tax code a little bit. When I listen to you, I hear something much more fundamental, a sense that we've gone off course in terms of what and who we value.

And the correction, I mean, stickers on home appliances is a good start to sort of tell people how long they last and what they cost. But there's something that has gone wrong to you, it seems to me, morally here. Is that fair or would you say I'm overreading you?

And the correction, I mean, stickers on home appliances is a good start to sort of tell people how long they last and what they cost. But there's something that has gone wrong to you, it seems to me, morally here. Is that fair or would you say I'm overreading you?

So this is why I started in this Trump quote, because something to me really interesting and strange is happening in politics and economic politics right now. Look, Donald Trump has been for decades the living, breathing embodiment of materialist excess. And Republicans probably have been quite free trade and very excited about cheap stuff from all over the world.

So this is why I started in this Trump quote, because something to me really interesting and strange is happening in politics and economic politics right now. Look, Donald Trump has been for decades the living, breathing embodiment of materialist excess. And Republicans probably have been quite free trade and very excited about cheap stuff from all over the world.

Democrats have been a little bit more, generally speaking, pro-tariff and a little bit more skeptical. And even during the campaign, Trump is running aggressively on the cost of living, how much everything costs, how much things would be at the Walmart.

Democrats have been a little bit more, generally speaking, pro-tariff and a little bit more skeptical. And even during the campaign, Trump is running aggressively on the cost of living, how much everything costs, how much things would be at the Walmart.

And as he's sort of layered on these tariffs, you've begun seeing this other argument that was sort of burbling around the edges of, I would call it the new right for a while, get more central.

And as he's sort of layered on these tariffs, you've begun seeing this other argument that was sort of burbling around the edges of, I would call it the new right for a while, get more central.

And all of a sudden, Donald Trump is talking about how we have too much cheap stuff in this country and kids shouldn't have all these dolls and we're too materialistic and we're not valuing the right things. And the Democratic Party and liberals in the Democratic Party become very pro-free trade, which is not their traditional stance. And you're watching this thing reorient really fast.

And all of a sudden, Donald Trump is talking about how we have too much cheap stuff in this country and kids shouldn't have all these dolls and we're too materialistic and we're not valuing the right things. And the Democratic Party and liberals in the Democratic Party become very pro-free trade, which is not their traditional stance. And you're watching this thing reorient really fast.

And I mean, Trump is good at that. He sort of reorients politics around him. But when you watch this and you talk about the Democratic Party becoming the party that is defensive of the line on the stock market, how have you just experienced this? Do you feel like your allies are changing?

And I mean, Trump is good at that. He sort of reorients politics around him. But when you watch this and you talk about the Democratic Party becoming the party that is defensive of the line on the stock market, how have you just experienced this? Do you feel like your allies are changing?

Do you feel – I guess I asked this in a way before, but do you feel like your critique is being hijacked for something that doesn't really serve it? There's something changing around you. I don't think you're changing that much, but something is changing around you. Yeah. And people are talking in a way they didn't speak before. How do you take it?

Do you feel – I guess I asked this in a way before, but do you feel like your critique is being hijacked for something that doesn't really serve it? There's something changing around you. I don't think you're changing that much, but something is changing around you. Yeah. And people are talking in a way they didn't speak before. How do you take it?