Ezra Klein

Well, let me go back to this point about corruption and what you said about the Paycheck Protection Act. Because one thing you see with the Paycheck Protection Act, with unemployment insurance in that period, and this comes up a lot, When there is a agreed-upon crisis, the government will throw out a bunch of its normal rules and procedures and act really fast.

Well, let me go back to this point about corruption and what you said about the Paycheck Protection Act. Because one thing you see with the Paycheck Protection Act, with unemployment insurance in that period, and this comes up a lot, When there is a agreed-upon crisis, the government will throw out a bunch of its normal rules and procedures and act really fast.

So I tell a story in the book about Josh Shapiro's rebuild of the I-95. This bridge collapses after a fire beneath it when a truck overturns. It's a crucial transportation artery on the Northeast Corridor. And he declares an emergency declaration and uses union labor, by the way, doesn't throw everything overboard. But I talked to the transportation lead in Pennsylvania about the project.

So I tell a story in the book about Josh Shapiro's rebuild of the I-95. This bridge collapses after a fire beneath it when a truck overturns. It's a crucial transportation artery on the Northeast Corridor. And he declares an emergency declaration and uses union labor, by the way, doesn't throw everything overboard. But I talked to the transportation lead in Pennsylvania about the project.

And he was saying, I was saying, okay, how would this have gone normally? He said, well, just doing the contracting rules that we normally go through would have taken 12 to 24 months on the design proposals and the contracting, you know, bidding process and so on. Then I was on Gavin Newsom's podcast. And just a funny sentence.

And he was saying, I was saying, okay, how would this have gone normally? He said, well, just doing the contracting rules that we normally go through would have taken 12 to 24 months on the design proposals and the contracting, you know, bidding process and so on. Then I was on Gavin Newsom's podcast. And just a funny sentence.

And he was saying, well, you focused on that, but we did one of those projects in nine days here under emergency declarations. And I had a different conversation with Westmore in Maryland. And they did this, I forget, I think it was a port, but they had another big emergency declaration project. And I began to think about this question.

And he was saying, well, you focused on that, but we did one of those projects in nine days here under emergency declarations. And I had a different conversation with Westmore in Maryland. And they did this, I forget, I think it was a port, but they had another big emergency declaration project. And I began to think about this question.

If every Democratic governor I talked to is so proud of what they did under emergency declaration, where they were able to wipe out a that you can track them back and why they made sense. I mean, the way they did the I-95 project so quickly in Pennsylvania was there happened to be two contractors working on that portion of the I-95 that day.

If every Democratic governor I talked to is so proud of what they did under emergency declaration, where they were able to wipe out a that you can track them back and why they made sense. I mean, the way they did the I-95 project so quickly in Pennsylvania was there happened to be two contractors working on that portion of the I-95 that day.

And when the emergency declaration was made, the transportation secretary basically pulled both of them off of their current projects and said, you're doing this now. And they were on the project, as he said to me, the moment the fire department released the scene. And on the one hand, that's something to be proud of.

And when the emergency declaration was made, the transportation secretary basically pulled both of them off of their current projects and said, you're doing this now. And they were on the project, as he said to me, the moment the fire department released the scene. And on the one hand, that's something to be proud of.

And I mean, you completely understand how if the way we give out contracts is the transportation secretary just says you, that's an incredible avenue for corruption. But I'd be curious, as somebody who's studied corruption a lot, how you think about this, because we've created such slowness in our efforts to root out patronage and corruption. Yeah.

And I mean, you completely understand how if the way we give out contracts is the transportation secretary just says you, that's an incredible avenue for corruption. But I'd be curious, as somebody who's studied corruption a lot, how you think about this, because we've created such slowness in our efforts to root out patronage and corruption. Yeah.

I'm not sure we have rooted out the patronage and corruption, but we've definitely created the slowness. Something seems wrong here in the equilibrium.

I'm not sure we have rooted out the patronage and corruption, but we've definitely created the slowness. Something seems wrong here in the equilibrium.

This goes, I think, to your idea of mission-driven politics, that there are these periods when we agree on a mission. Usually it's a war, but not that long ago it was a pandemic. And all of a sudden, we snap into a different mode. And it's a cliche in Congress and in politics, oh, we act during emergencies.

This goes, I think, to your idea of mission-driven politics, that there are these periods when we agree on a mission. Usually it's a war, but not that long ago it was a pandemic. And all of a sudden, we snap into a different mode. And it's a cliche in Congress and in politics, oh, we act during emergencies.

And then you think, well, is climate change not an emergency that maybe we need to think about how we're acting during? But it's raised for me this ongoing question of, on the one hand, you don't want everything done under an emergency declaration. Your normal rules should be good rules. And on the other hand, I've had sort of the same question I think that you're raising.

And then you think, well, is climate change not an emergency that maybe we need to think about how we're acting during? But it's raised for me this ongoing question of, on the one hand, you don't want everything done under an emergency declaration. Your normal rules should be good rules. And on the other hand, I've had sort of the same question I think that you're raising.