Fareed Zakaria

And that is a huge loss.

And that is a huge moral loss because Israel had a moral claim when it was founded.

I think at heart, the Enlightenment project that the United States is the fullest expression of, the only country really founded as almost a political experiment of Enlightenment ideas,

that at the core of any value system had to be the dignity and life of an individual human being.

Those were not pawns in some larger struggle.

I've been reading a lot about Franklin Roosevelt recently, because Roosevelt is probably the man most responsible for dreaming up that post-war order.

What you see is he goes at one point to Casablanca and he meets with the Moroccans.

And he said he came to realize just how savagely the French had ruled over these people.

And he said, we are not going to have fought this war to allow the French to go back and do what they've been doing for these past centuries.

And we're not going to allow the British to go back and do what they're doing.

That if we are going to get in this war and save the West, as it were,

there's going to be a different set of values.

And much of that post-war order comes out of that.

Why did he want free trade and openness?

Because he thought there had to be a way for countries to grow to wealth and grow to feel their power without conquering other countries.

So I think you're exactly right, that it comes out of a very deep moral sense that there is a way to structure international life differently than it's been done for centuries.

And the thing I worry most about is that what Trump is doing

is irreparable.

Because even if you get another American president in, the world will have watched this display and said, oh, America can be just another imperial rapacious power and we need to start protecting ourselves and we need to start buying insurance and we need to start freelancing in the same way and protecting ourselves.

And then, you know, you get into a downward spiral, right?