Fareed Zakaria

And look at what the passion on the right looks like.

I'm sure that the fundamental critique

that Trump comes at this from, which is that the United States has done terribly over the last 30 or 40 years, is just nonsense.

The United States has done extraordinarily well over the last 100 years, and in particular over the last 30 years, with one big caveat, where we have not been as good on distributional issues, which we could easily have done.

Exactly.

I'm wary of saying that the left needs to go somewhere where there's going to be a lot of drama and energy and people are going to be singing songs.

Because that often leads you in bad places.

Look, liberalism was born out of this distrust of...

All that passion that religion and hierarchy came from with the state and the church telling you this is the right thing to do, you know, here are the values.

So there is a moderation.

Romanticism in politics is something to be taken, to be viewed with a certain degree of skepticism.

You're going to go back to the 60s and start some new cult movement.

No, I agree with that.

And I think where I would like to see the radicalism and the kind of reform is when I look at the issue of affirmative action, to me, I was always very uncomfortable with it.

I always thought Lyndon Johnson's explanation of why you needed it to help

formerly enslaved and black people who had then lived under a hundred years of Jim Crow made perfect sense.

But then it starts getting expanded and starts being expanded to all kinds of people, you know, like people like me, which I thought made no sense.

I mean, America has been particularly bad

to African-Americans.

It has been particularly good to other immigrants.