Fareed Zakaria

But I think when you step back and think about it in a broader historical sense, the United States has a lot to be proud of.

There's a lot in there.

So let me try and respond to several elements of it because you put a lot into that.

One part of what liberalism's problem, and we both mean liberalism, small l, you know, the kind of liberal enlightenment project, is...

It's won too much over the last two, three hundred years.

Think of everything that liberalism has advocated from, you know, the emancipation of slaves to women's equality, to racial equality, to child working laws, to minimal work.

You know, everything has happened.

And if you look at the things that, you know, the classical conservatives argued for.

Religious tolerations.

Radical in its time.

Right.

You think about all the things that classical conservatives argued for, you know, for a powerful king, for a powerful church, for the domination of a certain church-based morality over life, for women to be kept in their place.

All those things have lost, right?

So at one level, the problem is, as you say, that liberalism not only has won, but then institutionalized itself, and those institutions inevitably...

become fat and corrupt and non-responsive.

And I think this is a real problem.

And what Trump can present is the kind of fiery insurgent spoiler, which always has a little bit more drama to it.

In the 60s, that came from the radical left.

Now it's coming from the right.

But there is always that ability to kind of say, I'm going to upset the apple cart in that