Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

Trump’s Domination Politics, at Home and Abroad with Fareed Zakaria

14 Jan 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

8.418 - 33.92 Jon Stewart

Hello. Welcome back to the weekly show podcast with Jon Stewart. My name is Jon Stewart and we have been gone. God knows how long we've been gone. I can tell you how long we've been gone. I'm back at my podcasting desk and there are, it would appear to be three dead insects. You would think that I would have come up here and cleared those out, but I took a nice break. But boy, did the world not.

0

35.002 - 58.031 Jon Stewart

There is so much going on that is dispiriting and needing of. framing. And I'm delighted to have Fareed Zakaria is going to be joining us on the show. You know, so much of this is about what exactly is the theory of power for this Trump administration? Is there anything that we can figure out that kind of gives us a coherent directional worldview as to where these guys are going?

0

58.071 - 69.087 Jon Stewart

Or is it just literally big fuck small? I think it's more complicated than that. How does Iran and Venezuela fit into all that? You know, all these different things we will try and run through and and

0

69.067 - 93.403 Jon Stewart

get some through line that could maybe help us feel slightly less vertigo from what we feel from the bouncing around between we are going to invade uh greenland and also is that delicious oil i think i'm going to have to to to take over your country and drill it uh so i'm gonna i haven't talked to this fella used to come on uh the old daily show

0

93.383 - 123.986 Jon Stewart

constantly, and I haven't been able to talk to him in quite a bit, so I'm delighted to have him on the program today. Mr. Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS. And so, folks, in a world that has so many now plates spinning in the air and a constant stream of what appear to be really close to cataclysmic events and catastrophes.

124.787 - 148.281 Jon Stewart

We bring in a gentleman who's been doing his program, keeping an eye on all this sort of thing for 18 years now, Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS. And as we spoke earlier, you were the most frequent guest that we had on The Daily Show back when I still had to work every night, which God bless. You figured that early on, Fareed, didn't you?

148.582 - 171.417 Fareed Zakaria

Well, it was a huge pleasure, honestly. But you asked me to do it when I was very young, and it was based on my first book, actually, which was all about illiberal democracy, you know, democracies where elected rulers start to abuse, elected leaders start to abuse the rule of law and, you know, individual rights. In those days, I was talking about places like

171.397 - 182.478 Fareed Zakaria

Pakistan and the Philippines, not the United States of America. And it was a huge pleasure. And of course, it leaves me wondering, what happened, John? What am I, chopped liver?

182.518 - 189.591 Jon Stewart

Why have you forgotten me? Oh, let me tell you what happens. So I disappear for nine years, raise a couple of kids.

Chapter 2: How does Trump's theory of power manifest in international relations?

283.202 - 303.579 Fareed Zakaria

When I was writing about it, when I coined the phrase illiberal democracy in 96, 97, I was looking at places like Pakistan, the Philippines, Slovakia, Turkey, Erdogan, you could begin to see it happening. And I always thought that this is not going to affect the developed world as much.

0

303.739 - 330.92 Fareed Zakaria

I did actually in my book have a chapter or two about America, but I thought it was sort of like a tendency, a danger that we were becoming too enamored of the idea of these charismatic leaders. But what I didn't expect is that the institutional framework of Western democracies would be as fragile as it is. And in this case, actually, the United States is in worse shape than other places.

0

331.801 - 339.036 Jon Stewart

So if you look in Europe- Explain that. We're in worse shape than places like Pakistan and Slovakia and Turkey.

0

339.016 - 343.38 Fareed Zakaria

No, no, no, no. More than in places like in Europe.

0

343.561 - 344.702 Jon Stewart

I see, I see.

344.962 - 368.145 Fareed Zakaria

Giorgia Maloney comes to power in Italy, and she's a fire-breathing right-wing populist. But she's contained by the institutions. Her policies have actually not been as radical as people thought they would be, partly because there are lots of institutions, both within Italy and within the European Union, and she's basically not torn them up.

368.125 - 396.242 Fareed Zakaria

In the United States, we have the oldest constitution in the world, which is great in many ways, but in some ways it's kind of old fashioned. So for example, our Justice Department does technically sit entirely under the president. That is not true in Europe. All their Justice Departments are independent agencies. So what that means is that what we developed after Watergate was a set of norms

396.222 - 409.718 Fareed Zakaria

the president wouldn't ask the attorney general to prosecute certain cases. But those are all just norms that we developed after Watergate. And Trump just broke them all. And he just said, look, there's no law that tells me I can't do this.

409.738 - 430.742 Fareed Zakaria

Similarly, he's correct when he says, there's no law that says my kids can't do all the business they want and take advantage of the fact that they're my children. And all these things were norms. And what it's turned out is that we need more actual laws that constrain executive power in particular.

Chapter 3: What are the implications of Trump's approach to Venezuela?

615.173 - 636.383 Fareed Zakaria

So if you have a system like that, you actually don't have the checks and balances. The checks and balances are completely notional. Or similarly, as you point out with the court, I think what Trump is doing, for example, on the tariff case, is a fascinating use, again, of this kind of illiberal democracy, because he's intimidating the court and saying, we're doing this for national security.

0

636.623 - 666.941 Fareed Zakaria

We're getting tons of revenue. All these deals have been done. You undo the whole reputation and a set of relationships and deals I have made Well, yes, but what you did was plainly unconstitutional. I mean, literally, it is in the Constitution, in a line, not by implication or inference. There is a line that says foreign commerce will be regulated by Congress. Tariffs were regulated by Congress.

0

666.961 - 685.547 Fareed Zakaria

And by the way, they knew what tariffs were. The reason we had the American Revolution was... Tariffs. When people talk about the Tea Party, what was that? That was a tariff, which they called a tax and a tariff interchangeable on tea coming in from Britain.

0

685.797 - 692.807 Jon Stewart

which of course the tariff was paid by Britain and not the American people. And it raised so much money and we were so powerful.

0

693.147 - 705.645 Fareed Zakaria

But by the way, that means the whole American revolution was a misunderstanding. If only we had realized that we in America were not paying the tariffs, it was the poor Brits who were paying it. Why did we revolt? That's right.

705.625 - 718.538 Jon Stewart

It was making America great again. But the thing that it is not hard for me to foresee a world that even if the Supreme Court says those tariffs are unconstitutional, that he will not

719.21 - 738.99 Jon Stewart

get rid of them, or Congress, which is now a vestigial organ, will just say, or they may do a different thing and say, okay, certainly they control the Senate and they control the House, and they could pass them if they wanted to, but they abdicate responsibility because they don't want to go on record for anything.

739.39 - 758.253 Fareed Zakaria

But I don't think he'll do it, John, because I think your inspector's general point is an interesting one. So, you know, he comes in for day one, he fires all the inspectors general. Now, congressional law allows the president to fire the inspectors general, but there's a procedure in the law, which is you have to give six months notice. He didn't follow procedure.

758.433 - 782.889 Fareed Zakaria

There has to be a specific charge of complaints against each inspector general. and he filed them all without cause. I think that for Trump and for the people around him, and I think this is very much part of the Heritage 2025 project, it is important as an act of principle to violate these laws because they believe these laws are incorrectly constraining executive power.

Chapter 4: How has the Trump administration challenged the rule of law?

795.045 - 814.724 Fareed Zakaria

And it'll be some made-up jumble of emergency national security. Lawyers can argue anything, and he'll come up with it. But if you look at the way in which he handles the recisions, as you said, it's absolutely clear that you can't just stop spending money that Congress gave. But they want to do it. But he did. Right?

0

814.744 - 830.588 Fareed Zakaria

Because they want to make the point that we think all these constraints are bullshit. We in the executive branch can do whatever we want. What I'm puzzled by is, do the Republicans going along with this not realize that one day there will be a Democratic president?

0

831.192 - 853.213 Jon Stewart

But I think what they believe is that because you will find that Congress suddenly grows a spine again when a Democrat takes office. I think what they're not understanding, and maybe they think of the Democratic president won't push this to the extent that he does, is that final step to that, which is what we were talking about earlier, which is. You and what army, motherfucker?

0

853.593 - 861.806 Jon Stewart

Like, how are you going to enforce this? And that's where I think the line is being drawn in the most dangerous place.

0

861.986 - 877.329 Fareed Zakaria

It's the Andrew Jackson line. You remember when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Sioux Indians who were being displaced? Or Cherokee. Yeah, and Andrew Jackson is supposed to have said, you know, Justice Marshall has made his ruling, now let him enforce it.

877.389 - 885.482 Jon Stewart

That's exactly right. And Stephen Miller has made this case explicitly. You know, he's gone out and he does that. You know, whenever he talks, I always imagine, like,

885.462 - 906.019 Jon Stewart

like dark clouds start to arise over there and like the theme from the exorcist starts playing but uh you know his point is hey we see the world as it is and the world belongs to the strong and the strong and and this gets to and i want to talk about it it's a more generalized theory of power because

905.999 - 936.605 Jon Stewart

Right now, they're trying to find a coherent governing philosophy that they can sell, you know, the Don Roe doctrine or these different things. We're going to strengthen our hemisphere and that's what makes America great and all these different things. What I believe they have decided is kind of a more old school theory of power, which is coerced compliance. is ultimately better than alliance.

937.266 - 960.795 Jon Stewart

That common cause alliance will not get America the prosperous future that coerced compliance will get us. And you see it everywhere. We're gonna get Greenland or we're gonna do it the nice way or we're gonna do it the hard way. So even if he strikes a deal to buy it or to do these other things, it is obviously at the point of a gun.

Chapter 5: How does the U.S. compare to other democracies in terms of stability?

1702.276 - 1725.087 Fareed Zakaria

And Trump is a huge character in it. And you can look, even then, every time he did a deal, His absolute imperative was, how do I squeeze everybody in every possible way to screw them and get the best deal I can for myself? There was never a thought about, instead of a transaction, how do I build a relationship?

0

1725.508 - 1732.676 Fareed Zakaria

And any really great businessman will tell you, businesses are built not on a single transaction, but on building a relationship.

0

1732.776 - 1735.64 Jon Stewart

And he burns bridges like nobody's burned bridges before.

0

1735.66 - 1758.314 Fareed Zakaria

Right. And this is what he's doing in each of these tariff negotiations. His point is, I'm going to screw you. I'm going to squeeze you. I'm going to get that. And there's something sort of strange about not realizing that American power since 1945 has been built on this unique thing that we have built so much goodwill and trust among the richest countries in the world.

0

1758.694 - 1779.826 Fareed Zakaria

International relations here is all predicted. that at some point Germany will go nuclear, Japan will go nuclear. They're too rich, they're too powerful to allow their foreign and defense policy to be subcontracted to the United States. But it never happened. And it never happened because we were honorable about saying we're taking everyone's interests into account.

1779.847 - 1805.618 Fareed Zakaria

And as you say, we made mistakes and all that, but compared to other great powers that dominated the world. You know, the United States has been remarkable in having this enlightened self-interest. And it took 80 years to build that level of trust. And my great fear is that, as you say, for kind of like... almost misguided notions of economic wealth.

1805.658 - 1827.792 Fareed Zakaria

We're squandering it because what are we going to get? First of all, the Venezuelan oil is a bit of a mirage. Most people don't realize they talk about Venezuela having the largest oil reserves in the world, 300 million. You know where that number comes from? Hugo Chavez one day crippled the estimate of Venezuela's... Chavez is a bit like Trump that way.

1827.832 - 1828.853 Jon Stewart

He likes big numbers.

1829.073 - 1831.076 Fareed Zakaria

We're not getting the good numbers?

Chapter 6: What is the significance of norms in American democracy?

2076.214 - 2097.085 Jon Stewart

It's the cycle of life, Fareed. So in Venezuela, we just started the cycle. We cooed the leader. We arrested him. Whether that's justified or not, we'll save that for a different day. We're going to go in and we're going to take their oil. People would say like, oh, Americans don't want that. That's like Iraq. It's not like Iraq. It's like Iran.

0

2097.946 - 2127.458 Jon Stewart

In 1953, we and British Petroleum did the same thing in Iran. Mosaddegh, we removed him. And what did we do? We replaced him with a pro-Western leader. And we got all those resources. And how long did that system hold up for? 1979. Because the resentments that we created within that region exploded into, it's the reason that the mullahs were in power in 79.

0

2128.68 - 2144.628 Jon Stewart

And now the mullahs rule with their iron fist. And now they're in the cycle where they're about to Turn over that country. And what's going to happen then? My guess is the Western powers or somebody's going to come in and install somebody else and the cycle. How do we not see that?

0

2145.389 - 2160.996 Jon Stewart

How do we not see that what we are starting in Venezuela is going to sow the seeds for the volatility and danger that we had already sowed in Iran in 1953? We're just repeating the same stupid cycle.

0

2161.465 - 2186.774 Fareed Zakaria

You know, for the United States, for America, it's always been very hard to understand other people's nationalism. In other words, we are very proud nationalist patriots, right? But then when you go to Vietnam and they're like, we want our country. We just don't understand that. We're like, no, no, no. We are going to give you a better system. We go to Iraq and they're like, get out of here.

2186.794 - 2205.831 Fareed Zakaria

And we say, no, no, no, you don't understand. We're going to set up a wonderful democracy where the Shias and the Sunnis will live together. And I actually, as an immigrant, I think we do mean well in many of these cases, but we seem to have no understanding that Other people have nationalism too.

2205.851 - 2229.646 Fareed Zakaria

There's this famous moment, it may have been apocryphal, when Mountbatten, the last British viceroy, is talking to Gandhi and saying- You know I love a good Mountbatten anecdote. Throw it my way. Yeah. And he says, Mr. Gandhi, if the British just leave India, it's going to be chaos. And Gandhi looks at him and says, yes, but it'll be our chaos.

2230.087 - 2230.167

Yes.

2230.518 - 2255.337 Fareed Zakaria

And that's what I think most people don't understand sometimes. People prefer their own chaos to a foreign-imposed peace, a foreign-imposed order. And what Trump is doing is actually igniting nationalism and anti-American nationalism in places that have really never had it, like Canada. Like Denmark, you know, like the Nordic countries, like Sweden.

Chapter 7: What historical context influences current U.S. foreign policy?

5318.464 - 5343.358 Jon Stewart

Well, this company, GiveWell... They've done the research for you. They've spent 70,000 hours on research. It helps donors find highly cost-effective programs because that's the key. It's not, come on, you're a generous person. You're a nice person. You're a good person. You're a good neighbor. But you do want to know that the money you're given has some effectiveness.

0

5343.898 - 5362.982 Jon Stewart

Well, GiveWell spent 18 years researching global health, poverty alleviation, and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities that they found. This is, man, this is the thing. And it's not even like gives it four stars. Like they're really looking into does your money do anything? And you can find all the research and recommendations on their site for free.

0

5363.884 - 5388.228 Jon Stewart

And thanks to the donors who choose to sponsor the research. GiveWell doesn't take a cut. from your tax-deductible donation to their recommended funds. So it's a hell of a service. To make a tax-deductible donation today, go to givewell.org and pick podcast and enter The Weekly with Jon Stewart at checkout. Make sure they know that you heard about GiveWell from The Weekly with Jon Stewart.

0

5389.01 - 5392.935 Jon Stewart

Again, that's givewell.org to donate or find out more.

0

5395.72 - 5429.278 Unknown

One life's wisdom in between. Elämän tärkeimmät eväät löytyvät ihan tavallisesta arjesta. Ei sitku, mutku tai voiku, vaan nytku. Ihan joka päivä. Eloveena. Sata vuotta täyttä eloa. Paramount Podcasts.

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.