Fareed Zakaria

You lose the kind of relationships that you had built over eight decades that created this extraordinary anchor of stability in the world, which was the Western alliance. And, you know, the gains are not that great.

So there are two things I think are going on. One is, as I said, Trump, if he has a worldview, he's a protectionist. He's always felt that, you know, you want to protect American industries. The foreigners come in and they take advantage of us, et cetera, et cetera. The second, I think, and this I think he discovered as president – The president has incredible power in the area of tariffs.

So there are two things I think are going on. One is, as I said, Trump, if he has a worldview, he's a protectionist. He's always felt that, you know, you want to protect American industries. The foreigners come in and they take advantage of us, et cetera, et cetera. The second, I think, and this I think he discovered as president – The president has incredible power in the area of tariffs.

Technically, it's meant to be Congress that imposes tariffs, but long ago, Congress delegated that power to the president. And I think Trump loves that. It is an extraordinary unilateral exercise of huge American power, the power of the American market to say, I will just block you from being able to participate in the American market. And you saw him do that in the case of the Colombian president.

Technically, it's meant to be Congress that imposes tariffs, but long ago, Congress delegated that power to the president. And I think Trump loves that. It is an extraordinary unilateral exercise of huge American power, the power of the American market to say, I will just block you from being able to participate in the American market. And you saw him do that in the case of the Colombian president.

So I think he's not sure. At one hand, he loves wielding this weapon. On the other hand, he is something of a protectionist. But as you say, he notices that markets don't seem to like it. So where will it all end up? My gut is that what happens is tariffs in the industrialized world, as I said, have roughly been about 3%.

So I think he's not sure. At one hand, he loves wielding this weapon. On the other hand, he is something of a protectionist. But as you say, he notices that markets don't seem to like it. So where will it all end up? My gut is that what happens is tariffs in the industrialized world, as I said, have roughly been about 3%.

If you assume all of Trump's tariffs are actually put in place, I think it goes up to about 6%. And if that stays, which is a big if, other countries will all retaliate. This is an area where I think we do live in. It's not even a bipolar world. It's a tripolar world. The Europeans and the Chinese are very powerful. And the Europeans on this issue speak with one voice.

If you assume all of Trump's tariffs are actually put in place, I think it goes up to about 6%. And if that stays, which is a big if, other countries will all retaliate. This is an area where I think we do live in. It's not even a bipolar world. It's a tripolar world. The Europeans and the Chinese are very powerful. And the Europeans on this issue speak with one voice.

So they will put on reciprocal tariffs. The Chinese will put on reciprocal tariffs. We end up in a world with more tariffs, more protection. Look, I'm an old-fashioned free trader. I think the whole thing is a disaster. I think that it is a complete misreading of the last 30 or 40 years of economics. J.E.

So they will put on reciprocal tariffs. The Chinese will put on reciprocal tariffs. We end up in a world with more tariffs, more protection. Look, I'm an old-fashioned free trader. I think the whole thing is a disaster. I think that it is a complete misreading of the last 30 or 40 years of economics. J.E.

Vance, when he was in Germany, in Europe, one of the few backhanded compliments he played to Germany was, he said, at least the Germans didn't go along with this Washington consensus nonsense and they protected their manufacturing, which is partly true. They didn't protect it through tariffs, by the way. They protected it

Vance, when he was in Germany, in Europe, one of the few backhanded compliments he played to Germany was, he said, at least the Germans didn't go along with this Washington consensus nonsense and they protected their manufacturing, which is partly true. They didn't protect it through tariffs, by the way. They protected it

by just having very strong apprenticeship programs and what we would call, you know, community college type stuff. But look at where Germany is. Germany, the third, fourth largest economy in the world, is stuck in the second industrial revolution. What do they make? Cars, chemicals, machine tools. They don't have any industry in the digital economy.

by just having very strong apprenticeship programs and what we would call, you know, community college type stuff. But look at where Germany is. Germany, the third, fourth largest economy in the world, is stuck in the second industrial revolution. What do they make? Cars, chemicals, machine tools. They don't have any industry in the digital economy.

The entire digital economy is totally dominated by the U.S. Why is that? Because we allowed ourselves to transition to where the frontiers of the economy were. This whole idea of trying to hold on to the 19th century or the 1920s It doesn't work. It's incredibly expensive. Nobody has been able to do it.

The entire digital economy is totally dominated by the U.S. Why is that? Because we allowed ourselves to transition to where the frontiers of the economy were. This whole idea of trying to hold on to the 19th century or the 1920s It doesn't work. It's incredibly expensive. Nobody has been able to do it.

Manufacturing employment today, after Donald Trump's four years and Joe Biden's four years, is the same as it was roughly 10, 15 years ago. So I think that this whole obsession is fundamentally misconceived. What we should do is much more redistribution so that the people who lose out in these periods of technological change are taken care of. But the idea that we can go back to 1950 is just nuts.

Manufacturing employment today, after Donald Trump's four years and Joe Biden's four years, is the same as it was roughly 10, 15 years ago. So I think that this whole obsession is fundamentally misconceived. What we should do is much more redistribution so that the people who lose out in these periods of technological change are taken care of. But the idea that we can go back to 1950 is just nuts.

I would guess that America first for Trump and for many of his followers. And again, I wouldn't put some of the ideologists of MAGA in the same category. But I think for Trump, it's the idea that the United States has been constrained for too long