Fareed Zakaria

We're okay with the liberal international system. We just think we got screwed. So that's one theory of where Trump is going. And I actually had a conversation with a very senior Republican this week. who was hoping, and I would say was arguing, that that's where Trump is going. Yeah, there's a lot of noise. It's very messy.

He does things, he negotiates out in the open in ways that you never would by demeaning Zelensky. But what he's trying to do is to get a better deal. But then there's the second view, which is the one we've just been talking about, which is no, no, no. He's not trying to get a better deal. He is trying to systematically remake the international system.

He does things, he negotiates out in the open in ways that you never would by demeaning Zelensky. But what he's trying to do is to get a better deal. But then there's the second view, which is the one we've just been talking about, which is no, no, no. He's not trying to get a better deal. He is trying to systematically remake the international system.

You know, and it reminds me, there was a period in the 1870s and 80s when the three great conservative monarchs of Europe, the Russians, the Austro-Hungarians, and the Germans got together and created a three emperors league. It was called the Dreikaiserbund. And they got together because they feared the rise of liberalism in Europe after the revolutions of 1848.

You know, and it reminds me, there was a period in the 1870s and 80s when the three great conservative monarchs of Europe, the Russians, the Austro-Hungarians, and the Germans got together and created a three emperors league. It was called the Dreikaiserbund. And they got together because they feared the rise of liberalism in Europe after the revolutions of 1848.

And it was meant to be these three conservative monarchs holding back the tide of liberalism. And to a certain extent, you wonder whether... for some of the people involved here, that is the way they're thinking about it.

And it was meant to be these three conservative monarchs holding back the tide of liberalism. And to a certain extent, you wonder whether... for some of the people involved here, that is the way they're thinking about it.

We need to, we and Putin and maybe even, you know, Viktor Orban and people like Erdogan and Xi, we need to hold back all this kind of godless, reckless liberty and liberalism that is engulfing the world.

We need to, we and Putin and maybe even, you know, Viktor Orban and people like Erdogan and Xi, we need to hold back all this kind of godless, reckless liberty and liberalism that is engulfing the world.

Yeah, and I think NATO has essentially been eroded already. Because what is NATO? NATO is not the buildings, the treaty. NATO is something very simple. It is the question, will the United States of America come to the defense of a small European country if attacked by Russia? And I think that...

Yeah, and I think NATO has essentially been eroded already. Because what is NATO? NATO is not the buildings, the treaty. NATO is something very simple. It is the question, will the United States of America come to the defense of a small European country if attacked by Russia? And I think that...

The events of the last few weeks have left, I can tell you, having talked to many Europeans, have left the Europeans in no doubt that if Lithuania were attacked tomorrow by Russia, there is almost no chance that Donald Trump would do everything it took to defend Lithuania. So that means they start asking themselves, you know, what is this new world we're living in?

The events of the last few weeks have left, I can tell you, having talked to many Europeans, have left the Europeans in no doubt that if Lithuania were attacked tomorrow by Russia, there is almost no chance that Donald Trump would do everything it took to defend Lithuania. So that means they start asking themselves, you know, what is this new world we're living in?

So you're seeing, I mean, this is really historic, that the guy who's going to become the chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, has said the most urgent task for Europe now is to begin a step-by-step independence from the United States because the United States, or at least Donald Trump, have shown themselves to be indifferent to the fate of Europe.

So you're seeing, I mean, this is really historic, that the guy who's going to become the chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, has said the most urgent task for Europe now is to begin a step-by-step independence from the United States because the United States, or at least Donald Trump, have shown themselves to be indifferent to the fate of Europe.

That is, you know, seismic for what was really America's most important ally in Europe to say that our principal strategic task now is to find a strategy of independence away from the United States. And you're going to see other countries do variations of that. And in some cases, Those countries will be probably doing private kind of hedging in a way that they can't publicly admit to.

That is, you know, seismic for what was really America's most important ally in Europe to say that our principal strategic task now is to find a strategy of independence away from the United States. And you're going to see other countries do variations of that. And in some cases, Those countries will be probably doing private kind of hedging in a way that they can't publicly admit to.

The one part I don't agree with you is I think there are countries that are going to do deals with America. Everyone is going to be wary of a long-term relationship. Because they realize that certainly in this new world, those don't mean that much.

The one part I don't agree with you is I think there are countries that are going to do deals with America. Everyone is going to be wary of a long-term relationship. Because they realize that certainly in this new world, those don't mean that much.

I was in Australia last December, and I met with a senior official there who said to me, you know, we're very happy to be in this closer relationship with the United States. We're delighted that you're sharing your nuclear technology with us, you know, the nuclear subs deal that we made with them.